devil incarnate works for breitbart?

[Word]

This was recommended to me by youtube and because of the promising title and the fact that I never heard of him but felt like I probably should have, I decided to watch it. And damn. That guy has his moments, but I can't help thinking he's the evil lovechild of Draco Malfoy and Andrew Scott's Moriarty.

I guess most of his arguments are flawed because he's basing general assumptions on personal experiences, or he cites bogus studies that never actually got conducted, but it's somewhat funny to see him talk, and sometimes sad to see the opponents react in a rather stupid way.

So then I typed "Yannopoulos is full of shit" into google in the hope that there was a comprehensive NY Times article with that headline, and found this (watch until the end), realizing that a youtuber is capable of histrionic method acting even if impaired by a beard like that. Does nobody tell these guys that their dramatic pauses, their false laughter and tear-shedding don't make them look more sympathetic? If I had time I would transcribe it and film myself reading his complete text and upload a less annoying remake of that video. You'd just have to put up with my accent. But I'd leave out that last part because it sounds as if some creepy fan is angry about a well-deserved restraining order ("I have liked you Milo...and I have been...I have praised you in the past...but I will not praise this.").

(I just linked the first video because I considered it worth talking about. The second one just made me burst with laughter, even though the topic is serious.)

[compguygene]

It is interesting to discuss why women are not choosing careers in science. I recently read a short article on the topic that interviewed a lady that is a Software Engineer and leader in the Girls who Code movement. She hit on a few interesting points that I think really hit the mark. In her experiences she has found that many girls are afraid to major in Computer Science or other tougher majors for fear of getting less than straight A's. She goes on to point out that in stressful situations psychological studies have shown that most, but certainly not all, women tend to avoid risk. Conversely, in stressful situations men tend to seek out riskier choices. She said that she was the kind of woman that always sought out risk in stressful situations and that is likely what led her to become a Software Engineer. To help mitigate that, Girls who Code is trying to get girls out in real world internships so they can try out the field before committing to the major. For many girls this has made them more comfortable with the risk.

[sinewav]

That guy has his moments, but I can't help thinking he's the evil lovechild of Draco Malfoy and Andrew Scott's Moriarty.

I couldn't watch the whole thing because he's quite annoying in large doses. However, between 19m-21:20 he almost makes a good point, but doesn't quite execute it properly. In fact, I have a hard time verbalizing it myself. Basically, I believe it is important for society to continually question itself, not only to determine where it is being evil, but also where it is being absurd. The first part is easier since most of us are equipped with a moral compass, even if it doesn't work well all the time. This isn't to say moral issues are easy. They aren't. However, I think very few people are able to tell when they are being absurd. I struggle with this myself. Recently I see more and more people claiming "political correctness has gone too far" when discussing issues of race and gender equality. Mr. Yannopoulos is one of them. And I ask myself "It is possible for political correctness to go too far?" Can we be too sensitive to the needs of others? I don't have an answer.

The second one just made me burst with laughter...

Agreed. If you are in so much shock that you can't speak properly, wait until you have better composure until you can deliver your message without all the emotional nonsense.

[Word]

In fact, I have a hard time verbalizing it myself

So do I, that's why I started the thread.

I couldn't watch the whole thing because he's quite annoying in large doses

Absolutely. Especially that seemingly endless radio interview, once the moderator forgot what his job is.

And I ask myself "It is possible for political correctness to go too far?" Can we be too sensitive to the needs of others?

I would reply yes (if you demand that the benefits of political correctness should be exclusively distributed to you, to the point that you oppress another group), but it's absurd to me that he really sees that happening right now. Assumed that he is right when he claims that men and women just are biologically different (concerning people whose psychological and anatomical gender is identical, I agree, but I have to acknowledge that LGBT people are difficult to assign to one of these categories, if at all assignable to them) and therefore are happier in their traditional roles (not always), there's nothing wrong with people who pursue a more traditional model.

But I think he's twisting the argument of the side he opposes, claiming that those evil feminists want everyone to give up the traditional model, while they're really just making the case for those who either have no other choice or consciously make the decision to work hard. I think he should much rather criticize the state/system if it doesn't support both models equally, not the women who choose/have to live as workers or mothers. I think both decisions should be respected, but if one of the things is forced upon an individual, that is bad in every case.

Another part of his argument is that in recent years there has been a larger amount of women at universities (and they got higher grades anyway), so he basically claims that male academics are an endangered species soon. Assumed he's right, what is even bad about that? Then the roles simply turn around and I can spend more time with the kids once I'm married. Men have a lower life expectancy, not least because of their traditional jobs. Well, an increasing number of unemployed single-dads would have to deal with the same problems as a decreasing number of unemployed single-moms, I don't see what's so bad about that either (I don't mean the problems themselves, but the shift that he warns of). Perhaps that is it? That some men fear they'll end up as the losers of that change if it gets real?

Recently I see more and more people claiming "political correctness has gone too far" when discussing issues of race and gender equality. Mr. Yannopoulos is one of them.

There are all these misogynistic pigs in the comments sections of the internet (also under that first video) that already create a niche for guys like him...so there is a problem, but it's not power-hungry women and their political overcorrectness.

@compguy: Yup, I actually read about that behaviour difference too (the context was "reporting rapes" though). It just seems to be a matter of encouragement, not so much talent or physiological preconditions, that are required to even that out. And coming back to what I replied to sinewav, there's nothing wrong with it IMO, for as long as it stays encouragement.

[sinewav]

I think he should much rather criticize the state/system if it doesn't support both models equally, not the women who choose/have to live as workers or mothers.

I agree with you, but since strong social movements often guide the State (in a functional democracy) criticizing powerful special interest groups is inevitable. While I mostly don't agree with Mr. Yannopoulos' views, I think it is important that his voice is heard, put to the test of skepticism, and responded to.

Speaking specifically about the USA, I can somewhat agree that minorities are not physically oppressed, and generally not economically oppressed (blacks and trans-persons excluded). However, there is a considerable amount of psychological oppression. Anecdotally, one of my good friend's is African American and I witness both subtle and overt racism nearly every time we hang out in public. Those who argue that minorities need to embrace "personal responsibility" (god I hate that term) and overcome oppression fail to fully understand the challenges these people face.

Are claims of victim-hood overused? Maybe. I can't say for sure. I don't even know to what extent I have been discriminated against because of my age, gender, or race. It's surely happened, but I can confidently say I have never been treated inhumanely. I think we need to apply the proper amount of effort toward correcting social wrongs and not exaggerate or be flimsy (Yannopoulos would agree), the problem is defining how much is enough.

[Word]

...but since strong social movements often guide the State (in a functional democracy) criticizing powerful special interest groups is inevitable. While I mostly don't agree with Mr. Yannopoulos' views, I think it is important that his voice is heard, put to the test of skepticism, and responded to.

Oh, yes.

Speaking specifically about the USA

As for Germany, I think our state doesn't do such a terrible job when it comes to the treatment of the refugees, but they should do more IMO. People here used to mock Americans for their stereotypical gun-fetish and the ongoing rift between black and white people, but I often wondered how our people would behave if suddenly lots of Asian, black or brown people came here. Where I lived there already were quite a few Asian immigrants and tourists who'd face racist remarks on a monthly basis. Now that all the black and muslim refugees come to us, many of them academics, it looks like we are where the US was 50 years ago...
And that's even more absurd because demographically we really need them if we want to sustain our living standard. Calling out people on facebook for racist remarks actually seems to help a little.

[Lucifer]

I've seen European commentators pointing out how the growing Islam immigrant population is going to <do this really bad thing to their country>. From my point of view, it seems that many Europeans are happy to say they're not racist, point to how American cops can shoot any black person they want with immunity, and say that's how they know they're not racist. But goddammit, stop all the Muslims from moving here! They're ruining our country!

So, yeah, Europe's not free from criticism on the subject of racism.

As to political correctness, what is that, exactly? I don't feel "politically correct" when I refer to a plus-sized woman as a plus-sized woman rather than a "fat woman". Actually, I can get kind of turned on if I said "fat woman", so it's best for all involved if I use less sexually charged language. When I call my wife "Hispanic", I'm not being "correct", I'm being factual. I'd never call her a "spic", a "wetback", or a "vato". (I do periodically call her ese with an over-the-top fake spanish accent, but I do that to everybody) But there's obviously no "political correctness" involved, I'm simply acknowledging that on her mom's side of the family, they're all Hispanic, and since the family story has been lost to the ages, we don't know if they entered this country as immigrants or were here already when Stephen Austin showed up with his oppressive, slave-owning posse.

Going further, when I refer to someone as Jewish rather than calling them a "******* jesus-killing money-lender", am I being politically correct?

What, exactly, is "politically correct"?

[Phytotron]

Damnit, Word, why did you have to drag those two scumbags onto this forum? Breitbart and Milo are both right-wing, anti-feminist, misogynistic douchebags. They're also both figureheads in the hashtag-that-shall-not-be-named, which is kind of hilarious considering Milo especially use to regularly shit all over gamers. And we don't need that garbage around here.

Neither have anything of value to "be heard." Milo is full of shit, including in the section sinewav singled out.

It is interesting to discuss why women are not choosing careers in science.

Girls Who Code is cool, and it's important to actively encourage girls and address their unique experiences and challenges in STEM. But you know what's more interesting? Men citing a factor like you did which allows them to ignore or dismiss all the greater social and structural reasons why women (and people of color) are so disproportionately underrepresented in STEM fields, instead putting it all on the girls/women themselves, saying things like they're simply "choosing" not to enter.

Little girls show equal or greater interest as boys in these fields—up to a certain age when they realize that teachers, peers, media, and even parents both casually and aggressively, passively and actively, discourage them from these subjects because they're "not for girls" or some variant thereof. Lay on top of that now this steaming pile of "fake geek girl" shit. Then the fact that those who do persevere in the face of this obstruction then get confronted with all manner of obstacles and hostility from within the industry itself. Then bring in that the internet—which for people in these fields, especially, has become a professionally integral space—has become downright terroristic toward women.

Deal with that shit perpetrated by men through patriarchy, sexism, and misogyny that actively excludes and blocks young girls and women from pursuing STEM. Then we can talk about "women just don't take enough risks."

MIT Computer Scientists Demonstrate the Hard Way That Gender Still Matters (full of other links)
Why Women Aren't Welcome on the Internet
Inspire Her Mind (I hate to reference a commercial, but marketers do know how to get a point across.)
Nothing to Prove - Geek Girls & The Doubleclicks


I can't break down the rest of this thread—too loaded, too much to unpack, and I just can't do it anymore (here). I will quickly comment on the most recent bits: Yes, Europe is way more racist than they pretend while pointing their homogeneous noses in the air towards the US. And that racism is not the least bit limited to Muslims. And the term "political correctness" itself is an invention of the conservative and reactionary right, an invective hurled to boastfully dismiss people and thoughts out of hand. It's a bogeyman, like the new "SJW" term, equally focking stupid.

[Word]

Damnit, Word, why did you have to drag those two scumbags onto this forum?

Yeah, I figured most of us would agree he's full of shit, but perhaps to varying degrees.