[AFL] After 6 years, let's try this again? Thoughts?

[DDMJ]

Alright, first, I'll give you a little background. The Armagetron Fortress League (AFL) was started in the summer of 2007 by Lucifer. A short, "trial" season was run and after a bunch of positive feedback, a full-fledged season was run in the fall. The idea was pretty simple. 8 teams signed up. There was a 7-week round-robin regular season. The 2 worst teams didn't make the playoffs. The 2 best had byes in the first round. Eventually, there was a champion.

Now, I know there are a TON of tournaments now. Back 6 years ago there was only really the Ladle, but that wasn't even that consistent at times. So, before you guys start bickering, I'm going to try and work around the current tournament schedule. That is, if I do, in fact, decide to run this.

Here are the more specific details:

• (Ideally) 8-12 teams
• 7 week regular season (if 8 teams)
• 5 week regular season (if 12 teams - 2 conferences)
• Playoff seeding (not everyone makes the playoffs; byes will be rewarded for regular season success)
• Anywhere from 5v5 up to 7v7 (so, even if everyone doesn't show up, you can still play the Game)
• One Game per weekend
• "Games" will be best of 3 matches with limit_score 150 (might as well make it last more than 20 min)
• There will be 2 main time slots for Games (most likely around 16 or 17 GMT, so as to not interfere with other tournaments)
• Teams will have set lineups of up to 12 players (this could change)
• Teams can add/drop up to 2 players per week
• Teams can propose trades (yes, even though I'm sure most people will be playing on clans/teams, this can happen)
• Trades can be vetoed by a simple-majority
• Trade deadline is 2-3 weeks before the regular season ends
• There will be a free agent pool (anyone can be a free agent)
• Potentially one of the teams will be the "free agent pool" (allows for anyone to play, open-team style)

I know that's a lot to digest, but I was just thinking/throwing around ideas.

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To summarize: I'm considering starting up a fortress "season" in which teams will play one best-of-3 "Game" each Sunday at a slightly earlier time than all the other tournaments start at. There will be a regular season and playoffs.

Please vote in the poll, but also, please post a reply in this thread. Even if this doesn't work out, I just want to see where the community is at right now, since (although my judgement is rather poor due to my inactivity) I feel like things are somewhat "stale."

Also, if this does gain traction, I'd love to start it immediately, with Week 1 of the regular season beginning on June 30th. Lastly, sorry for all the options in the poll, I just wanted to gather more feedback than just Yes/No.

- Durka

EDIT: Oh, and this will be free

[ppotter]

Playing through an entire season just to get the seeding for some playoffs is stupid; if you're the best team over the season (ie. you win the league) then you win. Obviously if there are two conferences you ned to determine an overall winner, but I think having a singular league would be better whether we have 8 or 12 teams.

The rest sounds good, although I think it could be interesting to have 4 games to 100 points, which would allow for a draw. Having 2 or 3 points for a win and 1 for a draw makes the league more dynamic I think.

[DDMJ]

Very good points Pots. I really like the idea of 4 matches. Although (maybe it's because I'm American), I HATE ties. But, as you said, it could add an interesting dynamic to the season.

The problem with not having a playoff system is that after a team loses 2 or 3 games, they might stop showing up because they can't statistically win. A solution would be a much shorter season, say 3 weeks, with the 4th weekend hosting the playoffs all in one day.

It could look like this:

• 16 teams randomly split into 4 divisions
• 3 round robin games played over 3 weekends
• Top 2 teams from each division get pitted in an 8 team single-elimination playoff on weekend 4

That way the league only takes 1 month to complete from start to finish. If we do it like that then there probably won't be a free agent pool or adding/dropping of players.

[Hoax]

Sorry nothing constructive to add just that like what potts said I couldn't believe we were playing all those matches just to determine seeds last time

[ElmosWorld]

So people would sign up with their team/clan?

What if we took an idea from Ratchet's FFA and draft all the teams? Otherwise its just going to seem like a weekly ladle match/clan war.

[Lucifer]

Playing through an entire season just to get the seeding for some playoffs is stupid; if you're the best team over the season (ie. you win the league) then you win. Obviously if there are two conferences you ned to determine an overall winner, but I think having a singular league would be better whether we have 8 or 12 teams.

Tell that to the NFL, MLB, NHL, etc. It's a sporting league. If you don't want to make that kind of commitment, you don't have to.

Durka: Like last time, if I find time to do some programming to help out the league, I will. But I've got a pretty full plate right now.

[Venijn]

I love this idea. It could setup regular wars for clans, offering more incentives for training regularly, bringing wide improvement in skill across the board, or as Elmo said, could provide a great platform to the awesome success of the FFA., something I'm sure the community would be very happy to see.

I would almost pay for this idea

Either way, I'm in!

[DDMJ]

What if we took an idea from Ratchet's FFA and draft all the teams? Otherwise its just going to seem like a weekly ladle match/clan war.

But FFA would make it seem like a dragged-on version of pickup. I feel like teams would make it more "exciting" and it'd be easier for each team to practice/strategize if they're already familiar with each other. It's much "cooler" to beat, say, ~R~ or Revolver, than a random crop of players.

[ppotter]

The problem with not having a playoff system is that after a team loses 2 or 3 games, they might stop showing up because they can't statistically win. A solution would be a much shorter season, say 3 weeks, with the 4th weekend hosting the playoffs all in one day.

That's something that I didn't think of, but I would hope people not only play for the potential to win, but just to play some competitive fort. Certain teams (not trying to put them down, but it's the same 2/3 teams that get to the final for the majority of ladles), but certain teams really have no chance of success in the ladle but they still turn up and play, they have fun, hopefully that would be the case here.

If this is popular I assume we'd do a second season, if there are benefits to having played every game in the previous season it could incentivise turning up farther.

Playing through an entire season just to get the seeding for some playoffs is stupid; if you're the best team over the season (ie. you win the league) then you win. Obviously if there are two conferences you ned to determine an overall winner, but I think having a singular league would be better whether we have 8 or 12 teams.

Tell that to the NFL, MLB, NHL, etc. It's a sporting league. If you don't want to make that kind of commitment, you don't have to.

I can't pretend to know a lot about American sports leagues, but I remember correctly the NFL has 4(?) conferences so there is justification for having a series of play offs (though in my opinion it should be limited to the winners from each league, again I don't know if that's the case or not).

I'm probably coming at it from a more European perspective, in pretty much every top level football league your finishing position is determined by your league position, nothing else. We have cup competitions where one unlucky game can knock you out undeservedly.

What if we took an idea from Ratchet's FFA and draft all the teams? Otherwise its just going to seem like a weekly ladle match/clan war.

But FFA would make it seem like a dragged-on version of pickup. I feel like teams would make it more "exciting" and it'd be easier for each team to practice/strategize if they're already familiar with each other. It's much "cooler" to beat, say, ~R~ or Revolver, than a random crop of players.

I did discuss a draft style league with insa/Titan before, but it's a lot more work, and people will be more willing to show up to their actual clan, rather than a random group of players they have no real allegiance to. Though Concord's sumo league was successful to be fair, for the first season at least.

[Titanoboa]

I too like the idea of 4 matches to 100.


How do you feel about this:

Several divisions of 7 teams. With 2 meets per season, this makes for 4 month seasons - you play your 12 matches on non-ladle Sundays. (On months with 5 sundays the 5th is skipped as well). Then there's a 2 month break, and then the next season is started. 2 seasons a year. A no-show equals a 0-4 loss.

Top team of div 1 wins the league and is crowned champion.
Bottom 2 teams of div 1 are relegated to div 2.
Top 2 teams of div 2 are promoted to div 1.
Etc.

To decide who plays where the first season, there would be a tournament of rock paper scissors. Or fortress. Either is fine by me. Probably fort tho.

Naturally, there'd be tons of awesome stats to fetch from the league and winning two seasons in a row would be difficult. And having a long-term succesful team would be prestigious.

I wonder if new teams would feel discouraged to have to start in the lowest division and work their way up. That may be the biggest problem with this idea.

Just throwing it out there

[Venijn]

Awesome awesome idea titan.

[Concord]

seems quite redundant with the bowl. the only difference sounds like the frequency of games and slightly different formatting. pardon me for asking, but, what's the point of a new AFL?

[Monkey]

First of all I'd like to point out that it's a hell of a lot of work. Lucifer worked very hard to get the last one running. Are you sure you are able to take on that workload Durka?

I definitely like the idea of a league although I'd prefer the style of playoffs that we have in the English football (soccer) league. For those that don't know, I will explain how these work:

The English football league has several divisions each containing a certain number of teams based on performance. At the end of each season:

• 1) The top team in the top division is the winner of the league.

• 2) The bottom 3 teams in each division go down to the division below.

• 3) The top 2 teams in each division go up to the division above (this doesnt happen in the top division).

• 4) The 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th teams play a knockout tournament, called the playoffs, where the winning team goes up to the division above (this doesn't happen in the top division).

Of course we have a lot less teams than the English football league but you get the idea.

I also prefer the idea that it should be clans/teams like in the Ladle, not random or drafted.

Finally, I'd prefer if the matches were played later, preferably at ladle time or even later, seeing as it's only one match and not an entire tournament.

[Lucifer]

First of all I'd like to point out that it's a hell of a lot of work. Lucifer worked very hard to get the last one running. Are you sure you are able to take on that workload Durka?

Durka ran the second one. He knows what he's doing.

[Titanoboa]

... I'd prefer the style of playoffs that we have in the English football (soccer) league.

That occurred to me, but seeing how there would be so few teams in each division, I don't think it's the way to go.