New setting in b0_2_8: DOUBLEBIND_TIME

[Z-Man]

At the risk of making 0.2.8 unpopular with certain users, there is a setting limiting the use of several keys to one action. With default settings, nothing changes. Binding two keys to the same action is never prohibited. But if DOUBLEBIND_TIME is set to a positive value by the server admin, the connected 0.2.8 clients won't be able to use two keys for the same action within the given time. Switching hands (you need your normal play hand to scratch your back or get a beer or whatever) is still possible depending on the value, but what is considered abuse by some (doing turns faster than you can press the same key twice) will be prevented.

Of course, the default value is 0 and it stays zero if a 0.2.8 client connects to an earler server. I'm working on getting it disabled if a 0.2.7 client joins on a 0.2.8 server as well, so the 0.2.8 users are not at a disadvantage.

A value 0f 0.05 or 0.1 is large enough to make double bind exploiting impossible.

This is a tool for server administrators to enforce their preferences on their servers. I happen to like dbing from time to time, too.

[Luke-Jr]

At the risk of making 0.2.8 unpopular with certain users, there is a setting limiting the use of several keys to one action.

I thought we had a feature freeze on 0.2.8?

but what is considered abuse by some (doing turns faster than you can press the same key twice) will be prevented.

Then it's redundant, too. CYCLE_DELAY does the same thing except without giving an unfair advantage to those with better keyboards or quicker fingers.

I'm working on getting it disabled if a 0.2.7 client joins on a 0.2.8 server as well, so the 0.2.8 users are not at a disadvantage.

Is it possible to get my client to trigger this w/o losing other 0.2.8 features?

[Jonathan]

but what is considered abuse by some (doing turns faster than you can press the same key twice) will be prevented.

Then it's redundant, too. CYCLE_DELAY does the same thing except without giving an unfair advantage to those with better keyboards or quicker fingers.

You forgot -i * i.

I'm working on getting it disabled if a 0.2.7 client joins on a 0.2.8 server as well, so the 0.2.8 users are not at a disadvantage.

Is it possible to get my client to trigger this w/o losing other 0.2.8 features?

You're on your own in that area.

[Z-Man]

I thought we had a feature freeze on 0.2.8?

Yep. This is a bugfix. There is a bug entry for it; it's low priority, but if the fix does not enter the first beta, it's useless for 0.2.8.

CYCLE_DELAY does the same thing except without giving an unfair advantage to those with better keyboards or quicker fingers.

Some server admins appear to like to set this one very low. And there is nothing wrong with giving users with better physis or equipment an advantage; this is an action game. See the other side: not disabling dbing gives people with more than two fingers an unfair advantage Plus, you can stick to servers that don't use it; there surely will be plenty of them.

Is it possible to get my client to trigger this w/o losing other 0.2.8 features?

Well, the actual key that triggers an action is not sent to the server because it would be no use. Add two and two together yourself

[TiTnAsS]

Once, again whats the scale for this? THINK THINGS THROUGH ZMAN!! Make a scale that stupids like me understand.. Mabye 0=0 keys binded to one thing 1=1 keys binded to one thing 2=2 keys binded to one thing etc.... But whats the scale with all this 0.05...or 0.1...And how on earth is that time based? If it is the way im thinking, it makes so you cant hit another button until that ammount of seconds are up?

[Jonathan]

If key A and key B are both bound to the same action, and you hit A, hitting B won't work for DOUBLEBIND_TIME seconds, and vice versa.

[Luke-Jr]

I thought we had a feature freeze on 0.2.8?

Yep. This is a bugfix. There is a bug entry for it; it's low priority, but if the fix does not enter the first beta, it's useless for 0.2.8.

There needs to be a real bug for it to be fixed... by-design functionality is not a bug.

CYCLE_DELAY does the same thing except without giving an unfair advantage to those with better keyboards or quicker fingers.

Some server admins appear to like to set this one very low. And there is nothing wrong with giving users with better physis or equipment an advantage; this is an action game. See the other side: not disabling dbing gives people with more than two fingers an unfair advantage Plus, you can stick to servers that don't use it; there surely will be plenty of them.

It's a computer game-- generally those are meant for the mind, not the body. The multifinger problem can be solved be allowing one to bind a key to right x2 or x3,4,5,etc

Is it possible to get my client to trigger this w/o losing other 0.2.8 features?

Well, the actual key that triggers an action is not sent to the server because it would be no use. Add two and two together yourself

Right; I meant to cause the block to be disabled for all the other players

[Z-Man]

TnA: Jonathan's description is right; I forgot to add the "in seconds" part. Sorry.

There needs to be a real bug for it to be fixed... by-design functionality is not a bug.

Bad design can be considered a bug, too. Not that I consider the ability to db especially bad, but some people do.

The multifinger problem can be solved be allowing one to bind a key to right x2 or x3,4,5,etc

and "keep turning as fast as possible while I hold down this key". Yes, and there's no reason a future version may not have them. But of course, they'll be disabled by the same setting. If a server admin wants to turn his server into a "see how fast you can hit your keyboard" zone (see Sab's sig), he should be able to.

Is it possible to get my client to trigger this w/o losing other 0.2.8 features?

Well, the actual key that triggers an action is not sent to the server because it would be no use. Add two and two together yourself

Right; I meant to cause the block to be disabled for all the other players

We could make it so, we just need to bump the network code version number. But why?

[Phytotron]

Just my two cents: I'd favor z-man's suggestion. I mean, I doublebind -- mostly out of laziness, slower reflexes than perhaps most of the (esp. younger) players, and a desire to avoid carpal tunnel syndrome, heh. But I generally try to use it with discretion. The abuse that some people show with it is annoying, to say the least, when it's practically all they do. So, yeah, just my vote.

[Lucifer]

awww slow down z-man! I still haven't managed to test all those other nice new rubber settings yet!

Ok, so what's the possibility this can be tweaked to prevent the 180ing but still allow reasonable double-binding? I'm guessing its a good possiblity and it'll work out.

Luke: I wouldn't consider this a feature. I'd rank it right in there with the grinding thing we've been talking about, which I personally rank as the highest priority for this release (if you hadn't guessed by now). Say I put it on the older test settings for my test server (not the ones it most recently ran, those didn't work out so well, but the ones everyone said really rocked) and set it to 0.008. CYCLE_DELAY is 0.004, which goes over real well. Raise CYCLE_DELAY to 0.006 and people complain. So say I put this one at 0.006....

Hmmm, what's the possibility I can get a setting to dither this from the wall, similar to how CYCLE_WALL_NEAR affects acceleration? I wouldn't object if it was CYCLE_WALL_NEAR that did it, neither.

This might also help kill the new triple-binding crutches.

[TiTnAsS]

Ahh now that thats cleared up i like the idea ..

On another note (im to lazy to pm this)... Luci did you get your other system running yet?....

[Lucifer]

Ahh now that thats cleared up i like the idea ..

On another note (im to lazy to pm this)... Luci did you get your other system running yet?....

No, not yet. The table I was going to put it on doesn't look like it'll fit in my room, so I'm rethinking how to arrange it. The computer itself is built, just needs an operating system. If you have a table to send me, I'll take it.

[TiTnAsS]

lol how big and where do you live?

[Lucifer]

Austin texas, and about 2 feet by 4 feet would do me.

The table I have is one of those big folding tables that seats 6, 3 on each side. If I put that in my bedroom, I won't be able to go to the bathroom without climbing over the bed, and in the middle of the night that bed's occupied by a woman and a small boy.

So, I have the desk the computer in there is on right now, which is the server that currently runs Breakfasts in Hell. But I need to move *that* piece of furniture into the living room where I can put the other computer I built, you know, so my kids can use it. (My two older kids are at the age when I really need to make sure there's a computer available to them) After I do that, there's no place left in my bedroom to put my server. If there's no place for my existing server, there certainly isn't a place for a second server. So that's where I'm at.

I have another table in the living room that's a perfect size that I'm considering moving in there, but I have misgivings about that. I use it to work, I put my laptop on it. And after school starts, it's a perfect place to do homework, beats the hell out of the dining room table, you know?

I will probably wind up doing that last one anyway. It's the best of the bad choices available right now.

[Luke-Jr]

Ok, so what's the possibility this can be tweaked to prevent the 180ing but still allow reasonable double-binding?

double-binding is 180ing... at least on a 4-axes map...

Luke: I wouldn't consider this a feature.

Neither do I, really. I consider it an annoying nuisance =p

I'd rank it right in there with the grinding thing we've been talking about, which I personally rank as the highest priority for this release (if you hadn't guessed by now).

Haven't heard about that one...

This might also help kill the new triple-binding crutches.

Leave my quad-binding alone, please.