VIP Suite is a group of people that have been getting together to play organised matches (currently only fortress). People can be from clans or clanless, it does not matter. We played in secret because I didn't want people either annoying me or sucking up to me in order to get in. I have decided to open it up to the public. People that pester me about getting in will automatically not get in. I have been and still am constantly adding people to it. It will have a new name or names, channel(s) and site(s). The name VIP Suite resembles the fact that "if your name's not on the list you're not coming in" and is a bit of fun. Don't bother posting any "Oh you think that you are important people do you..." BS.
We had 12 matches and the basic system works well but there are a few issues that I have had to think about. I have also been concentrating on bringing more people into the fortress community. I therefore temporarily suspended matches. The first issue is that not everybody wants the same thing from playing matches. Some people want to come and have very serious matches, others want to come drunk or stoned or just have a chilled time, etc. Then, some people argue, don't get on, leave in emo, don't allow people they don't like on their server, are unreliable, etc... Another issue is skill.
Solution: Have 2 separate groups/clubs with the following rules:
1) Ultra strict matches, ultra strict rules, all about skill and playing the game, keep it separate from the rest of arma life. No arguing, no malicious comments, no joking about. Zero tolerance policy towards this. All comments should be constructive, even if they are critical. This includes in forum posts, etc. Keep human decision out of it as much as possible. We start with one server. Skill is ranked by win to lose ratio (it will even out after enough matches). As we have more people and hence servers, people that signup for each match will be put on a server according to their skill rank (we need to think about how to rank mathematically when we have more than one server). This is probably for only a "minority" of people that want the same as me. I have the final decision in matters but I do want to discuss things with people. Note that people will probably not need a high level of skill to enter. The key is having the correct attitude. Matches will be separated by skill level anyway.
EDIT: I do not want to be in charge of this. I suggest either putting someone or some people in charge, or making it a community run thing by people that all want strict matches, or scrapping the idea. If it goes ahead then I think it is likely that I would play in it.
EDIT:
2) Proper matches but with more relaxed rules. For the "majority". Rules to be decided by the "majority". To be run by the "majority". It looks like I will have to start it off because no one else has.
Some questions to start us off:
What about annoying people, maturity (including people that are nice but annoying)?
Can we play with people we dont like or even hate?
What about people that dont play regularly enough?
How do we decide who gets in?
Anything that we need to think about?
Etc...
I asked flex what he wanted, without telling him what I wanted. He basically said the same as what I want. I will see how many others want the same. There may not even be enough people that want option 1 at the the moment. I don't want to bore people too much with my first post so I just kept to key points. I actually do listen to people's comments, criticism, suggestions and opinions, etc...good or bad...although I may or may not agree with them...
Let's discuss...
VIP Suite and the future...
Moderator: Light
VIP Suite and the future...
Last edited by Monkey on Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:10 pm, edited 6 times in total.
Playing since December 2006
I'd chose option 1.8
Matches organized, you have a time/server according to your skills.
you can laugh, but stay polite or a match admin (one per match decided I dunno how) will kick you out.
Not too restrictive (it's all about fun
) but not too relaxed, else it's getting awful!
-players on time
-do not offense another player
-stay polite and if someone tickles you, don't reply with anger...
That is the most important imo.
after, a good organization, with a well-done rank ladder will be a plus for everyone.
Here is my opinion
(P.S. I was in the not-anymore-secret VIP and the matches were enjoyed because they were high quality matches with reliable players and a general skill level high enough for you to improve)
EDIT:
about these:
we can totally play with people we can't bear (still respect the rules, and don't try to kill one player in particular (that would not help your team))
people that don't play regularly enough can still join matches from time to time, I don't see the problem
we could decide who gets in with polls? the options would be - get in group 1 - gets in group 2 -.... - doesn't get in (assuming there are groups by skills)
Other Idea:
Maybe mix (and alternate) good and a bit less good players, so the less good learn from the goods, and the next match, they switch
(but no too big difference of skills)
so, matches would be
100% group 1
2/3 group 1 w/ 1/3 group 2
2/3 group 2 w/ 1/3 group 3
etc etc
and alternate players that play with lower-skilled or better-skilled players from one match to the other.
Matches organized, you have a time/server according to your skills.
you can laugh, but stay polite or a match admin (one per match decided I dunno how) will kick you out.
Not too restrictive (it's all about fun
) but not too relaxed, else it's getting awful!-players on time
-do not offense another player
-stay polite and if someone tickles you, don't reply with anger...
That is the most important imo.
after, a good organization, with a well-done rank ladder will be a plus for everyone.
Here is my opinion
(P.S. I was in the not-anymore-secret VIP and the matches were enjoyed because they were high quality matches with reliable players and a general skill level high enough for you to improve)
EDIT:
about these:
maturity: as long as people respect the rules and control themselves it's ok to keep themWhat about annoying people, maturity (including people that are nice but annoying)?
Can we play with people we dont like or even hate?
What about people that dont play regularly enough?
How do we decide who gets in?
Anything that we need to think about?
Etc...
we can totally play with people we can't bear (still respect the rules, and don't try to kill one player in particular (that would not help your team))
people that don't play regularly enough can still join matches from time to time, I don't see the problem
we could decide who gets in with polls? the options would be - get in group 1 - gets in group 2 -.... - doesn't get in (assuming there are groups by skills)
Other Idea:
Maybe mix (and alternate) good and a bit less good players, so the less good learn from the goods, and the next match, they switch
(but no too big difference of skills)
so, matches would be
100% group 1
2/3 group 1 w/ 1/3 group 2
2/3 group 2 w/ 1/3 group 3
etc etc
and alternate players that play with lower-skilled or better-skilled players from one match to the other.
K-Yo
The skill ranking system, for option 1, will put players, that do well in lower skill servers, into higher skill servers and vice versa. It should all even out. As I said, we do need to discuss the exact ranking method if we have more than 1 server.
Option 1 is only for people that really want option 1. If you want 1.2 or even 1.1 then 1 is not for you...play in option 2. The two are not mutally exclusive. You could play in both, depending on your mood.
We could even add an option 3, which would just be a regular time and server to turn up in with barely more to it than that.
Option 1 is only for people that really want option 1. If you want 1.2 or even 1.1 then 1 is not for you...play in option 2. The two are not mutally exclusive. You could play in both, depending on your mood.
We could even add an option 3, which would just be a regular time and server to turn up in with barely more to it than that.
Playing since December 2006
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DDMJ
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I hated the idea from the start since it restricted players from getting to play. I also hated the idea that you were "God" in a sense and you claimed that only "good" people were on the "VIP" list, but that was totally not the case. For example, AshitakA was on the list and SageLord was not, and I'm pretty sure we can all agree that SageLord is pretty damn good.
This is a bad idea. I don't like the idea of separating players by "skill." How the hell is someone going to get better unless they play against better players.
Everyone should be allowed to play and participate. If you don't like them - silence them. Ladle FTW.
This is a bad idea. I don't like the idea of separating players by "skill." How the hell is someone going to get better unless they play against better players.
Everyone should be allowed to play and participate. If you don't like them - silence them. Ladle FTW.
Yea... I kind of am annoyed at the fact that I wasn't included in this. I'm sure I'm not the only person who feels this way. I'm sorry, but I can't be on IRC at all times.
And Monkey, this has nothing to do with the tournament that I was planning. The tournament I have been planning is supposed to encourage newer players to mingle with older fortress players. The VIP system doesn't work that way, it seems like it may even turn some people away from fortress.
On the other hand, I like the ranking system. I think it'll be interesting to see how that works out. Although I don't really understand how it plays a part in moving people up to a higher ranked server. If there are only two and you separate them by how a player acts and not how they play (which is what you said initially), you allow them to get into a higher ranked server. There are some discrepancies you should work out.
And in conclusion...
Can I play?
And Monkey, this has nothing to do with the tournament that I was planning. The tournament I have been planning is supposed to encourage newer players to mingle with older fortress players. The VIP system doesn't work that way, it seems like it may even turn some people away from fortress.
On the other hand, I like the ranking system. I think it'll be interesting to see how that works out. Although I don't really understand how it plays a part in moving people up to a higher ranked server. If there are only two and you separate them by how a player acts and not how they play (which is what you said initially), you allow them to get into a higher ranked server. There are some discrepancies you should work out.
I also think that if you create an elite fortress group like this, you could at least try not to come off as such a prick to everyone that's not involved (i don't actually think you're an prick, your post just comes off that way).The name VIP Suite resembles the fact that "if your name's not on the list you're not coming in" and is a bit of fun. Don't bother posting any "Oh you think that you are important people do you..." BS.
And in conclusion...
Can I play?
I never thought that only "good" people were in VIP but only reliable people (with some skill). Sure, "God" had to like them too.DDMJ wrote:I hated the idea from the start since it restricted players from getting to play. I also hated the idea that you were "God" in a sense and you claimed that only "good" people were on the "VIP" list, but that was totally not the case.
By the way, dictatorship is a good government system ... as long as you have an excellent dictator.
G5 (winner of nothing)
agreed, let me remind the proposal I made few posts earlier:DDMJ wrote:How the hell is someone going to get better unless they play against better players.
K-Yo wrote:Other Idea:
Maybe mix (and alternate) good and a bit less good players, so the less good learn from the goods, and the next match, they switch
(but no too big difference of skills)
so, matches would be
100% group 1
2/3 group 1 w/ 1/3 group 2
2/3 group 2 w/ 1/3 group 3
etc etc
and alternate players that play with lower-skilled or better-skilled players from one match to the other.
100% agreed (well, maybe of "excellent" I'd have put "good enough")G5 wrote:By the way, dictatorship is a good government system ... as long as you have an excellent dictator.
K-Yo
Durka and Sagelord:
I asked sagelord 4 times to come to IRC to discuss being in the VIP but he either ignored me or made some lame excuse. That is why he was not in it. I am not the only person to comment on sagelord's communication. It does seem to have got better recently though, I must say. Btw, this has nothing to do with your tournament, sagelord, it just has some similar factors.
At least Ashitaka was reliable, not ignorant and well mannered. He didn't argue with anyone in it and he didn't leave part way through matches (like Durka did in the last one, which ruined it). After Durka was put in it, four people asked me why he was in it because he is so annoying. I think that TUI is a perfect reflection of this. You are very wrong for this because you can't stfu. I may have a big mouth a lot of the time but in serious matches I am very capable of stfu. I'm sure you don't want a part of this anymore. That's fine.
The most important thing to me is having people with the right attitude. Skill is factored into it but, as you should be able to see with the way I want to do it, people will be grouped in terms of skill. The theory is that anyone with the correct attitude can play and they will then be playing with players of a similar skill. Players that play well will move up and get to play with better players and vice versa.
I also don't care if I look like a "prick". I know that I care about the game first and foremost and that I do a damn good job of organising, following and enforcing the rules. I come down hard on people that don't follow the rules and I believe that is more important than being liked.
The first option is only for a minority of people that want the same as me. As I said, there will be a second one which will be decided by the "majority". The majority, unfortunately, can suck (look at how retarded US presidents get into power and how shit music gets into the charts).
I asked sagelord 4 times to come to IRC to discuss being in the VIP but he either ignored me or made some lame excuse. That is why he was not in it. I am not the only person to comment on sagelord's communication. It does seem to have got better recently though, I must say. Btw, this has nothing to do with your tournament, sagelord, it just has some similar factors.
At least Ashitaka was reliable, not ignorant and well mannered. He didn't argue with anyone in it and he didn't leave part way through matches (like Durka did in the last one, which ruined it). After Durka was put in it, four people asked me why he was in it because he is so annoying. I think that TUI is a perfect reflection of this. You are very wrong for this because you can't stfu. I may have a big mouth a lot of the time but in serious matches I am very capable of stfu. I'm sure you don't want a part of this anymore. That's fine.
The most important thing to me is having people with the right attitude. Skill is factored into it but, as you should be able to see with the way I want to do it, people will be grouped in terms of skill. The theory is that anyone with the correct attitude can play and they will then be playing with players of a similar skill. Players that play well will move up and get to play with better players and vice versa.
I also don't care if I look like a "prick". I know that I care about the game first and foremost and that I do a damn good job of organising, following and enforcing the rules. I come down hard on people that don't follow the rules and I believe that is more important than being liked.
The first option is only for a minority of people that want the same as me. As I said, there will be a second one which will be decided by the "majority". The majority, unfortunately, can suck (look at how retarded US presidents get into power and how shit music gets into the charts).
Playing since December 2006
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DDMJ
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This is funny because you made all of the matches during the middle of the day on Thursdays, so basically, no Americans could participate. I really didn't want to talk about this again, but the reason I left was because we took way too long to start the match. I was already pressed for time because it was in the afternoon on a weekday, so when everything was taking way too long (and I had warned you I had to leave), I had no choice.Monkey wrote:At least Ashitaka was reliable, not ignorant and well mannered. He didn't argue with anyone in it and he didn't leave part way through matches (like Durka did in the last one, which ruined it).
I'm annoying? Haha, ok Mr. Dictator that claims he wants to attract more players to fortress, but then creates a secret fortress group that is exclusive to only a few. And what the hell does TuI have to do with this? AFAIK you hadn't even started playing this game when that started, so please explain...Monkey wrote:After Durka was put in it, four people asked me why he was in it because he is so annoying. I think that TUI is a perfect reflection of this.
You, my friend, are an idiot. I have no clue what you're trying to say since this is not true at all. I don't run my mouth...Monkey wrote:You are very wrong for this because you can't stfu.
He should have gone with a triumvirate, so we could at least watch a stabbing.
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