Internet Problem

lucky7 · Post by **lucky7** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:49 am

when ever I try to play on one of the master servers, it doesn't connect. it says:
'Login Failed: Timeout
Killing User 0 Ping: 1'

anyone know whats wrong?

Website · Post by **Z-Man** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:06 am

Since it happens with every master server, there must be some connection problem on your end. What is your network environment at the place that you want to play at, and what operating system are you using? Is there, by any chance, a restrictive firewall in place?

lucky7 · Post by **lucky7** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:55 am

I use Windows Vista and I don't know if there is a firewall.

Website · Post by **Z-Man** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:25 am

That one has a builtin firewall. Since you don't know about it, it is probably on default settings. I'll go and check what it does with that. Edit: Done. I could not find any settings that blocked Armagetron from connecting to the masters, no matter how restrictive I made them. The default settings are no problem at all.

Which variant of Vista do you have?

Meanwhile, could you tell us how you are connected to the internet physically? Do you use a wireless connection? If not, are you using a router or a modem?

lucky7 · Post by **lucky7** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:37 am

A wireless internet. I use a modem. I checked and my firewall is currently off.

Website · Post by **Z-Man** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:56 am

lucky7 wrote:I checked and my firewall is currently off.

You mean the Vista firewall by that, am I correct?

Could you tell us the brand and name of your modem and wireless access hardware (not the one in your computer, the other end)? Some hardware has odd default configurations.

Also, are you in control of all the hardware that gives you internet connection? Sometimes, infrastructure providers block the one or other thing, for example I can't play Arma on my university's wireless network.

Can you play other UDP based games over the internet? Most shooters and other action oriented network games fall into that category, strategy games tend to use the alternative TCP which is less often problematic.

And just to clarify that we're not completely off track, your problem is that you hit "Game", "Network Game" and then "Internet Game" in Armagetron Advanced, right?

lucky7 · Post by **lucky7** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:14 am

The modem is a Comcast Modem(don't know what model) which is connected to a D-Link AirPlus Xtreme G wireless router. I am in control of the wireless hardware. What does UDP mean?And yes, I was under internet game.

Website · Post by **Z-Man** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:55 am

Let's concentrate on the access point first; there are many models that go by the name of Xtreme G, here's a list (also containing network cards and the like, you can ignore those):

http://www.ciao.co.uk/sr/q-D-Link+AirPlus+Xtreme+G

It would be useful if you could pick out your model. I guess it's safe to ignore the + variants, just going by the looks should be OK.

I found people with similar problems with BZFlag:
http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=9717
One of them had Vista identified as the root of the problem (which we will ignore for now), one has a D-Link DI-604 he has to configure which could be similar to yours, and one reported that McAfee Security Center was blocking the traffic.

Do you have McAfee Security Center installed, or a similar full security suite like Norton? Sometimes, you get them as "free" gifts with a new PC or a contract with an ISP.

About UDP, it is fully explained here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_Datagram_Protocol
The short version is that there are two ways for applications to communicate over the internet, one is TCP, the other UDP, and routers and modems can treat the two ways separately. TCP is reliable, UDP is fast (has low latency/ping). Action oriented games are therefore wise to choose UPD for communication.

Other free games that use UDP and that you can therefore try out to test whether your problems are UDP specific or Armagetronad specific include:
The afforementioned BZFlag (apparently uses both TCP and UDP): http://www.bzflag.org/
Nexuiz: http://www.alientrap.org/nexuiz/
Tremulous: http://www.tremulous.net/

And you can also try the DEFCON demo available here: http://www.everybody-dies.com/
(it's a strategy game, why they picked UDP is a little mystery, but they did.)

Could you go and try a couple of these games?

For nitpickers, I did not forget about ICPM, but that can't really be used by generic applications.

lucky7 · Post by **lucky7** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 8:47 pm

I solved the problem. There was still one firewall up.

Website · Post by **Z-Man** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:40 am

Could you tell us which one so we can ask the right questions to the next person coming along with the same problem? Thanks in advance.

Also, you should probably reenable the Vista internal firewall, or whatever firewall it was that you initially turned off. It's good for your system health.

lucky7 · Post by **lucky7** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 2:20 am

Norton firewall

Website · Post by **Z-Man** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:15 am

Ahh, yes, I remember that one was also guilty in the gruesome, 0x30 pages long thread with skullflame. Thanks!

lucky7 · Post by **lucky7** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 9:30 pm

You can also tell the firewall to let certain programs through without turning it off

Website · Post by **Z-Man** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 9:55 pm

Yep, it even does that automatically(*). But the process is very slow, and I suspect that it doesn't work at all for some people, including you. I've done some testing with Norton 360 and wrote up my experiences in our FAQ.

(*) Which is braindead. It does not add any security, only complexity. A simple "allow all outbound traffic" rule has the same net effect without the problems.