BUG cries on Bugfarm Fortress and Sumo

[Z-Man]

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[0] root core dumped teammate Z-Man! Boo! No points for that!
[0] Zop committed suicide.
[0] Lekker Reppe core dumped teammate root! Boo! No points for that!
[0] featherfcuk committed suicide.
[0] Gnorty core dumped CT.X3V1 for 2 points.
[0] CT.X3V1 core dumped Pez for 2 points.
[8] CT.X3V1: jeje (hehe)
[6] Z-Man: BUG!
[14] Zop: wtf?
[5] [Hg]AdY-LuCiFeR --> Teammates: Def NEEdS HelP
[3] Pez --> Teammates: break earlier!!!!!
[12] root --> Teammates: who middle??
[0] Kroma core dumped ~*SP*~ �M�g� for 2 points.
[6] Z-Man: darn, random kill still around

False alarm, as it turns out, this was a regular messup. I had a doublegrinder on my side, so we all went slow. root came from the other side, grinded late, and because of the double grinder, was ahead of us all. I was the lucky one to punch a hole. Zop really was a suicide, and Reppe passed through the hole I made and his break killed root, who was now unexpectedly on the wrong side of Reppe.

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[12] ghableska: i wanna be blue
[12] ghableska wants to play for Team blue on the next respawn.
[15] wrtlprnft |mbc| wants to play for Team gold on the next respawn.
...
[0] SuBlImInAl.FreQ plays for Team blue.
[0] wrtlprnft |mbc| plays for Team gold.
[0] ghableska plays for Team blue.
[0] ghableska plays for Team gold.
[12] ghableska: ...
[12] ghableska: BUG
[12] ghableska: stupid thing won't let me join gold :X

Well, seems like Subliminal stole your place.

[Fonkay]

You didn't see mine?

[wrtlprnft]

Or mine?
I was blue and wanted to be gold, but it didn't put me there and then said I wanted to be blue (even though I already was)

[gnorty]

This happened to me 3 times tonight.

Gnorty wants to play for blue
Gnorty plays for blue
Gnorty plays for gold

Sucks

[Z-Man]

You didn't see mine?

Err, I probably saw it and ignored it. Playback still isn't working all of the time (working on it), and most bug reports from that period seem to have been dublicates of the random kill bug. Sorry, do you remember what it was about? I kept the recordings around, and if it's important, I'll dig it out and see what I can do with it.

To the rest: Awwl right, awwl right. If you want to change the team, the order is now only executed if it is possible, if not, it is remembered for the next round. That actually simplified some things. One academic problem though: Previously, all shuffling around of team members that resulted in legal end configurations was possible. Now, temporary states with illegal configurations are avoided. There is special code that allows circular changes ( x goes from A to B, y goes from B to C, z goes from C to A ), but more complicated changesets may exist that are legal if executed all at once, but can't be reailized with legal substeps. This is an interesting problem to think about

Anyway, please watch out for strange team change related messages on CVS test. Doing the right thing is hard, but giving good information about the what and why is even harder.

[wrtlprnft]

That wasn't what I meant. It was more like this:

wrtlprnft plays for Team blue.
wrtlprnft wants to play for team gold on next respawn.
wrtlprnft plays for Team gold.
wrtlprnft plays for Team blue.
wrtlprnft wants to play for team blue on next respawn.

Or very similar...

[Fonkay]

On mine. Everyone stoppped moving for a few seconds, jumped about a bike legth, stopped and then jumped again. Then everything gameplay related froze. I could chat, and I could read chat at the regular speed. And neither my ping or FPS changed.
It was probably a client side bug now that I think about it. But since it's happened a few times, and only in CVS I figured it was worth a shout.

I think the cry was something like
Fonkay: Uhhhh... nothing's moving...
Fonkay: Uhhh, holy sh*%.
Fonkay: BUG?
Then I chatted about it with some people who were playing.. And then I think I left and came back. Or it fixed on the respawn. One or the other.

[Z-Man]

Wrtl: and the second "team wish" message came without you doing anything? Well, let's hope the reorganizing fixed that, too

Fonkay: Found the recording, and it's one of those that don't play back at all, even before the highscore lists were added. Sorry. From the description, it sounds like one of those real world network problems or, yes, a clientside bug, because the game seemed to go on normally on the server.

I think now all recording breaking bugs are eliminated, so keep BUGging The one recurring bug I'm currently after are the missing holes; I've seen it personally twice already that an explosion hole was not there or smaller than it should be, and several reports sounded like they saw the same thing.

[wrtlprnft]

Well, I was in the team menu and kept hitting "join team gold". Still a bug, it shouldn't let me want to join my current team

[Z-Man]

The client, unfortunatley, doesn't have the full information on team status all of the time. Thus, I've given up on restricting your choices beyond the most basic things.

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[0] Vanhayes still wants to play for Team gold, but isn't currently allowed to.
...
[16] [Hg]AdY-LuCiFeR wants to play for Team blue on the next respawn.
[0] [Hg]AdY-LuCiFeR switches from Team gold to Team blue.
[0] Vanhayes switches from Team blue to Team gold.
...
[15] Vanhayes: BUG
[16] [Hg]AdY-LuCiFeR: bug
[15] Vanhayes: i was on blue
[16] [Hg]AdY-LuCiFeR: i was gold
[15] Vanhayes: did u want to switch?
[16] [Hg]AdY-LuCiFeR: no

Hmm, the [16] in from of AdY's team change wish tells me it really came from his client. Maybe the client executes team balancing code on its own? I added a bug entry.
Edit: Checked the code, the only place where a team change message can possibly be generated by a current client is the team change menu. If it is a client bug, it's old.

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[8] pavelo: BUG hole didn't reach full size immediately

Sounds like regular, unavoidable, syncing delay, if the hole was full size after some fraction of a second.

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[2] 2020: BUG no idea what happened there

Well, then

ghableska defending, ShowHealion attempting an insertion attack:

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[0] ghableska core dumped ShowHealion for 2 points.
[3] ShowHealion: bullshit i was on the inside
[10] Gnorty: show - I saw that
[10] Gnorty: BUG - showhealion went through a wall
[3] ShowHealion: yeah i know
[3] ShowHealion: that was retarded
[10] Gnorty: bug report :)
[3] ShowHealion: i was inside and then i wasnt
[9] gArIsImO: does that to me sometimes too
[3] ShowHealion: my penetration is tops

The server disagrees. ShowHealion hit ghableska's wall right after his cycle, he was too late to enter the hole. Looks like regular clientside misprediction (unavoidable, again).

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[0] ~*SP*~PsYkO still wants to play for Team blue, but isn't currently allowed to.
...
[16] MaZuffeR gets shuffled from rank 2 to 8.
...
[0] MaZuffeR still wants to play for Team blue, but isn't currently allowed to.

Err, the shuffling also shuffles future team assignments around. That was, in the context one of the functions was developed, a feature, but now it is a bug that has been fixed.

There's more in the pipeline.

[gnorty]

z-man - can you give us (me?) a lowdown on this "misprediction" problem? Many times it happens and is really annoying. At least If I know when my client may be lying to me I can predict it, or at least not be so surprised!

It seems to happen when you grind the OUTSIDE of a tunnel, and then mysteriously turn up INSIDE it when you try to break away.

Also, on the same(ish) subject, is there any possibility of playback controls when watching recordings? forwrd/rewind/pause would be kewl. slow-mo would be leet, and I will let you sleep with my GF if we could pause and then zoom around with the cam.

[NB any promises made by me in these posts which I later decide to retract are likely the mischievious actions of hackers, and I accept no responsibility or liabiltiy]

[Z-Man]

z-man - can you give us (me?) a lowdown on this "misprediction" problem?

As it was the case in the reported BUG, it was just the usual kind: you don't look at the lag-o-meter and think you're ahead, and in reality, the enemy is. The same, actually, as here:

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[0] Sonar core dumped junglehungry for 2 points.
[0] Sonar core dumped dookatee |DpG| for 2 points.
[2] junglehungry: wtf???
[12] dookatee |DpG|: wtf!?
[2] junglehungry: i was clearly in front of sonar

Clearly not, Sonar was five units ahead for both. Or so says the server.

The next sync from the server usually clears that up within fractions of a second, but usually, you're already dead.

It seems to happen when you grind the OUTSIDE of a tunnel, and then mysteriously turn up INSIDE it when you try to break away.

That, depending on what you mean by "tunnel" here, could also be a server bug, or a client floating point inaccuracy problem. Syncs from the server give your position, not on which side of walls you are, and the client can sometimes get that wrong.

A rewind button is definitely technically impossible. The other buttons are a UI problem. The recording is for debug purposes, and all recorded input is fed into the game as if you just made it. There is no good place to add checks for recording control keypresses without disturbing the main purpose, playing everything back exactly as it was recorded. Moving the camera while you play back a recording is possible right now anyway.

[gnorty]

from memory, this is what I remember showhelion doing. he is gold. the blue wall was present before he started his manouvre IIRC.

I am not 100% cartain that this is exactly correct, but it illustrates the problem as I see it.

I have drawn the gold line inside and outside, mainly because I am not sure exactly where the lines cross (probably at the first turn)

looking back through the thread it seems to be a common complaint. From my own experience, I would say it is a server issue, mainly because the client seems to show the events exactly as expected up to the crash itself.

in fact, you have posted a trace of an incident I reported some time ago, which appears to demonstrate exactly what I describe here, although the trace picture is not too clear.

[Z-Man]

In the old debug print, you were inside the tunnel all the time. It's not really visible in the attached version, but my screen version had a higher resolution.

If something like you drew really happens, absolutely do point it out. It would be a server bug. But the problems from the last two posts looked different, they looked like the regular "i'm ahead i'm ahead I turn to cut him darn why did I crash" types. At least as far as the server could tell. A clientside recording of such incidents would also help immensely.

[gnorty]

the 3/4 times it happened to me, the other bike was too far away for lag to be an issue, it really was a case of suddenly being on the opposite side of the wall to the expected side. I am kind of open minded about whether it is me or the server that got confused, but I record all my games now, so if it happens to me again, I will be more able to see/demonstrate exactly what happened.