VIP Suite and the future...

Monkey · Post by **Monkey** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:44 pm

I explained that in my first post in this thread. Read the first post again.

Monkey · Post by **Monkey** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:43 pm

For anyone that is interested, here are some bits of information about the VIP. There is not much left because it will be/is being replaced by two separate organisations.

Website: http://monkey.mastercontrolprogram.de/vip/

IRC: #armagetron.vip on Freenode - It is now fully opened up (but not much going on)

The rules page altered somewhat, over time, from the start. I am very interested to hear people's honest comments on them. Here is a copy of the most recent rules page:

Rules

The main rules

1. I or any assistants can change anything at any time. What we say is final.
2. I don't want people hassling me to join VIP Suite so please don't tell anyone about it.
3. It is your duty to check this site for any changes to anything. Changes are announced on the News page.

General

Breaking any of the rules without good reason will result in a ban. The minimum number of weeks you can be banned for is equal to the number of times you have been banned.

You must not cancel, leave part of the way through a match, argue or moan too much, or smurf.

Player names should not contain clan tags or any 1337ness.

Don't write in colour because it is annoying, except for sensible colours in team chats.

Signups

To signup for a match, PM me in IRC (private message) with the phrase "sign me up". Do not write it in the vip channel because I might miss it.

The deadline for signups is strictly 20 minutes before the match is due to start.

Cancellations are not allowed so don't signup until you are sure you can play.

If the number of people signed up is odd and more than 8, then the last person can only play if another player signs up. That person will be marked on the list as 'provisional'. This ensures that we will end up with an even number of players.

Make sure that you read all of the information on the match page.

The servers that we play on are never on the master list so make sure that you add the match server and all related settings to your server bookmarks.

Teams

Team names will be decided by me. At the moment we are just using Blue and Gold, to keep it simple.

Each team will be designated a tag, for clarity. I will decide what the tags are.

Substitutions are not allowed because they are messy and can also unbalance teams.

Team captains are responsible for the entire organisation of their teams. Their decision is final.

All team and captain selection will be done in IRC before the match.

IRC before match

Everyone must be in IRC at least 15 minutes before the match starts. Anyone who is late will not be allowed to play. From then on people can not leave and come back, even for a short while.

Team captains will be chosen by asking each player, in order of signup, if they want to be a captain. The first two that say yes will be captains. The captain that signed up first will have the choice of being Blue or Gold.

Team captains will then pick players for their team. Picking is in the order: 1 Blue, 2 Gold, 2 Blue, 2 Gold, 2 Blue ... 1 Gold.

All organising of teams is then down to team captains. Do it in IRC or in the game server, it does not matter.

The match

The match will start at exactly the time that it is supposed to start, even if teams are not organised properly.

K-Yo · Post by **K-Yo** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 5:34 pm

Monkey wrote:If the number of people signed up is odd and more than 8

Maybe you meant:

If the number of people signed up is odd or more than 16

Monkey · Post by **Monkey** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:41 pm

No, I meant 8. Anything less than 8 players is not enough for a match (8 = 4v4). The maximum number of players could in theory, vary, for different match types, so that would be something in the details section of each match.

1200 · Post by **1200** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:50 am

Monkey Wrote:

I explained that in my first post in this thread. Read the first post again.

Do you mean this

Skill is ranked by win to lose ratio (it will even out after enough matches).

Well if team are gonna be organized to be even, wouldn't the win/loss ratio be even in the long run??? I don't see how this could be a good way to rank players could you explain???

Monkey · Post by **Monkey** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:20 am

I understand your point. It depends on how players are selected for each team. For example, if players are selected randomly then a good player would win more on average than a crap player. To show this in a mathematical(ish) way:

Lets say you have 16 players and rate them each in skill from 1 to 10

Imagine that those players are rated: 2,9,5,5,6,2,4,8,6,4,5,4,7,7,6,8

Crap guy has skill = 2
Average skill of every other player =
( 9+5+5+6+2+4+8+6+4+5+4+7+7+6+8 ) / 15 = 5.7333333
Total skill of crap guy's team = ( 5.7333333 * 7 ) + 2 = 42.133333
Total skill of other team = ( 5.7333333 * 8 ) = 45.866666
Crap guy's win/lose ratio on average = 42.133333 / 45.866666

Crap guy's win/lose ratio on average = 0.91860466

Skilled guy has skill = 9
Average skill of every other player =
( 2+5+5+6+2+4+8+6+4+5+4+7+7+6+8 ) / 15 = 5.2666667
Total skill of skilled guy's team = ( 5.2666667 * 7 ) + 9 = 45.866667
Total skill of other team = ( 5.2666667 * 8 ) = 42.133334
Skilled guy's win/lose ratio on average = 45.866667 / 42.133334

Skilled guy's win/lose ratio on average = 1.0886076

OK?

1200 · Post by **1200** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:57 pm

Thanx for your explanation.
Your explanation seems to make sense.
But i'm not totally convinced that your formula is the accurate representation of the win/loss ratio (rank) of a player.

I will chip in again if i think of something...

Monkey · Post by **Monkey** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:21 pm

It is definitely not a 100% accurate representation. For a start, ranking with discrete numbers from 1 to 10 is not accurate (continous numbers would be more accurate). The point is that it shows the principal (as you acknowledged) and it is certainly "relatively" correct. I do think, however, that this is more accurate than it may seem at first.

Lackadaisical · Post by **Lackadaisical** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:06 pm

Monkey wrote:For example, if players are selected randomly then a good player would win more on average than a crap player.

But they aren't, they're selected in such a way that the matches are even: the total skill of both teams are equal. There's nothing wrong with it though, you'd actually want everyone to win and lose as close to 50% as you can. Which is why the 'best' and 'worst' player would probably be playing in the same team, to get their winratio closer together.

I think you'd have to choose between even matches which don't give a good measurement of skill or 'random' matches which might get really really uneven but are more useful for ranking.

1200 · Post by **1200** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:58 am

I think matches should be even. If they're random its not much different from regular pickup matches....

The question is will Monkey's win/loss ratio formula represent good indication of peoples' skill levels when matches are carried out in an even manner, or will everybody's ratio be too close to 1 for it to be any good of an indication...

Monkey · Post by **Monkey** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:06 am

I think we will have to agree to disagree on a few of those issues. Anyway, I will leave it there.

Monkey · Post by **Monkey** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:11 pm

I do not want to be in charge of this. I suggest either putting someone or some people in charge, or making it a community run thing by people that all want strict matches, or scrapping the idea. If it goes ahead then I think it is likely that I would play in it.

K-Yo · Post by **K-Yo** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:43 pm

Monkey wrote:I do not want to be in charge of this.

You mean u don't wanna be the dictator anymore?
let's find a new one!

Imo, there should be only one person deciding, else, it takes too much time to make any decision, and taking one more than the other is no big deal really. (for example, take the ladle settings: talking, polls etc, but another choice wouldn't have harmed anyone...)

We could just elect a new dictator!

gawdzilla · Post by **gawdzilla** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:29 pm

/me is an excellent dictator

but a LAZY dictator

Website · Post by **Z-Man** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:32 pm

Lazy dictators are not good dictators. Being a powerhungry egomaniac takes dedication!