Experimental change: finite cycle width

[omega]

sorry

[speed]

i you have inconsiderate teammates who dont split eary enough and you manage to live and there a small gap to freedom you could use it but now with this feature you cant.

[Lucifer]

I think you guys are just being wusses. I beat every grind I attempted, made every tunnel I made, and didn't have any problems. My conclusion? If you already played a clean game, you will notice nothing different. If you didn't already play a clean game, you're going to have to learn now. But that's ok, it's not like you were born knowing how to play the game, you can learn new stuff.

Spidey mentioned that I didn't lose half my attacks by fat cycles. He's right, I lost a very teeny tiny amount of attacks by fat cycles. That's because I've never allowed myself to become dependent on doing one or two good things better than anybody else, because when those things are gone, for whatever reason, be it that I'm playing on a new server, or a feature gets added the makes me obsolete, what am I going to do?

Well, I plan to keep on kicking ass.

[oO.k3nNy]

I've been playing half day... since like everyone stopped db till now + ppl are shuffling out very much (who the hell wants to be pos 1 being trapped everytime, who the hell wants to be pos 2 or 3 without db? And when you try it you ll be "squeezed killed"). I think nobody had a problem with the old settings. Some dont have problems with the new settings or even like it more. But alot of people do have problems with the new settings. So why change it then? Why change a very much loved game to a less loved game?
I agree with alot with route. Many changes were likely positive. And were acknowledged by the players. But this one just doesnt fit in for a lot of fortress pro players.

[~*PsYkO*~]

Take it down immediately.

American Fortress is up again.

[~*PsYkO*~]

K I was told the idea of the change by omega and hated it then, now I just went in and tried it and I everything I learned to get more skilled from the past 2 months are completely lost.

[Lucifer]

I think you're just doomsaying, now. Predictions of doom don't sway me, I don't know about these other guys. See, it's a test server, and new stuff gets tested there. If American Fortress is up and it's more to your liking, play it. It's also not a test server, so you don't have to deal with it.

It's pretty simple, really. If you don't want to be a test pilot, don't sign up for NASA.

As for making it a less loved game, directly responding now, how can a config item that's disabled by default make people love the game less? They don't have to use it. If they don't like a test server testing settings, they are invited to run the production server that's supposed to take over the role the test server has for players that don't want to be guinea pigs.

[oO.k3nNy]

As for making it a less loved game, directly responding now, how can a config item that's disabled by default make people love the game less? They don't have to use it. If they don't like a test server testing settings, they are invited to run the production server that's supposed to take over the role the test server has for players that don't want to be guinea pigs.

I am talking about the server not the game...
Plus those ppl who you dont know, are those 63% who voted against alrdy in the poll. So plz dont act as if they arent here, most of them dont like to play bugfarm atm too.
I didnt say things shouldnt be tested on that server. I did say a lot good things were tested there, and I indeed like to test that stuff.
But i dont like this idea, and this topic was made to discuss it, so dont tell me i dont have to deal with it. Because i like(d) that server very very much, many ppl do, so i dislike it when a change is made which makes the server less interesting for me.
A good point: You make a great server, you test great things. Then you make some bigger change, which changes the tactics of the server. A part of the gamers on your server (and it seems alot till now) dont seem to like it: Should you goahead and say: This is a test server, get used to it! Or should you say: hm maybe rather change it back than loosing a part of the gamers community on this (prob most played) server.
I am not playing this game because of some ds rubber server, im playing it because of this server (and some part the sumo server). And i do care if the settings are changed in a way i dislike...

What is a change if it makes ppl stop playing the game instead of making them?

(btw. there is no comparible server with the same settings of bugfarm)

[omega]

and at the end of the day zman said he wud make the poll before anyone complained or said anything. ALso the thing for variable tail length nobdy else has or has implemented

[wrtlprnft]

ALso the thing for variable tail length nobdy else has or has implemented

CYCLE_RUBBER_WALL_SHRINK is implemented in 0.2.8.2, you just need to change that setting to get the effect

[omega]

Im not a server admin, but ill tell zero that (sp server admin). Im sure ed wud like that too.

[Lucifer]

Indeed those are good points, omega, with only one minor thing ignored. People are demanding it be changed back when it's only been there for less than a day. How can you test stuff that only runs for such a short period of time?

I'd like to see American Fortress come back, to be honest. It was a good production version of this server and did a good job handling a similar load of people.

I still don't see what you guys are missing. I played defense a little while ago, and ignoring momentarily that you (yes, you, omega, and the others on our team) left me back there to defend against 5+ attackers by myself every round, people were coming down the center, outgrinding on the rim wall, and all sorts of stuff. Someone, I think it might have been you specifically, even managed to get into a tunnel that was nearly impossible to survive in regardless of cycle width.

Now, how about some experimentation with the setting? It's 0.1 now, how does it look when it's less? More?

(Note that Zop was double-grinding and doing a fine job at it. Spidey commented that he ws helping, well isn't that what teamwork is all about? What do you do about doublegrinders that really do screw up the team and don't listen when people ask them to stop? Now you can answer that question quite handily, double-grinding requires a team effort now)

I'd like to see this setting kept, possibly tweaked to make a few more people happy. I like this because I can still do all the same stuff I used to do. Now I don't get sucker-punched, everyone is pretty much forced to play a clean game. Focus now is on real tactics. Good moves still take you quite far, but you can't close the gap without tactics, and that's how it should be, imo. In particular, team-based tactics.

Which leads to my rant. You lose 50% of your first wave in any assault against fortified defenses. When you go 7 v 3 in fortress, those 3 constitute a fortified defense. So you lose 50% of your first wave when you assault it. Your second wave, then, is at near parity with the defense. Meanwhile, your goalie is, by himself, fighting 5 attackers at once. At 5:1 odds, and a bit rusty, the poor guy is losing. At least you guys had the decency not to complain about your goalie sucking, but how many times must he say "DEFENSE IS DEAD" before one of your 2 surviving attackers goes back to help? Note that your 2 surviving attackers are still fighting 3 defenders...

Send 2 attackers in your first wave, they should attack the defenses, not the zone. Your second wave attacks afterwards, and they should have cleared defenses so they can attack the zone directly. Second wave is 2-3 people. That leaves you 3-4 for defense. That gives much better odds, regardless of how fat your cycle is.

[omega]

i have never sed take it down immediately that i dont agree with. It shud be up long enuff for zman to run his tests, just after that changed back. Yes all i know is whenever i tryed to outgrind a average to good player i always got squeezed as it says. Yes its all about teamwork, but here let me put a point ady luficer him and meteor, i was centre they killed me 8 times out of 10 when i was centre. Theyre good players, been playing a long time, they understand teamwork. Yeh if the world was perfect and noobs listened and other players cared all wud be fine. But 50% of the time it doesnt. U have a noob on ur team or an inconsiderate person no matter how many times u tell them will simply not listen. Of course there are guys that will, but many will not. Just look at the topic on double grinding at start, belenus was one of the original pioneers and was 1 of the best at it, he doesnt do it cos its soo annyoing for the rest of the team. It was a completely divided opinion cos many of the players that dont do it dont listen. No noobs can do it it requires skill, these are ppl that have been playing a while and should realise teamwork matters, problem is they dont. Also, its easy enuff to defend already, this rule makes it harder to pull of the standard moves if theres even 1 sweeper.

[whatup]

Please take down the change now. It eliminates the concept of rubber for me (and, i think, but i'm not sure, most other high-pingers). Double grinding doesn't work, and although this isnt a bad thing, I am just resisting any changes because i like tron teh way it is, and there is a whole slough of reasons why this is unplayable for me.

Another reaosn is that American Fortress is up again..

For me, its just another thing to worry about: "will i make it through this gap here? etc.."

[root]

I think it is the defenders responsibility to seal the middle. As a big fan of defending I like the chalenge of getting middled. I vote NO to the new change