my motivations behind the tronic spoon, ladle, et al

[ed]

I think Phytotron was justified to say what he said. A little graphic, perhaps. It still couldn't get through to it's target audience.

Personally, I think the world is ****** with very little chance that we will leave it for our children in the condition we found it. The only way we can do something about it is by getting together. If we can get together for a game, then we can get together for more important reasons, using the same social mechanisms. Hence my emphasis on self-organising. I think religions have had their day. I think politicians too. The scientists and economists don't have sustainable solutions.
Then again, why not just argue with me while the world goes to hell: let's fight it out on the grid!

It is very odd statement that can be interpreted in many different ways.

He could be saying something like:

The world is a messed up place. Let's forget about it and play tron.
I don't want to wear blinkers to the world around me, hiding in my world of tron.

Maybe he's saying:

Let's all get together on the grid. Because by getting together we will know what it feels like to change the word for the better? Without any of it's dangers or effects.

Absolute nonsense. It could also be viewed in other ways.
The bottom line, as Phytotron stated, is that tron the video game is an entirely seperate entity to the state of the world. They should not be brought together in the same sentence.

Whatever 2020's trying to say I find it offensive due to it's vagueness and would prefer it was removed from the Official armagetronad Wiki - or at least worded in clearer way so not to offend anyone genuinely trying to make the word a better place.
For a newcomer to stumble across that statement and think we're somehow trying to save the world by playing tron in a team is absurd.

For me I just enjoy the game when I have time. Great game.
I have no delusions of changing the world in any way by doing so. Or experiencing what it might be like to do so.

[Lucifer]

Well ed, here's my take, I guess. All I know about 2020 is that he's a 36 year old Scot. That's it. He could be a 36 year old Scot with Down syndrome. How would that change your interpretation of what he's said? He could be a PhD at the University of Edinburg with a 10000 page thesis supported by rigorous scientific experimentation that he has distilled to a few short words for us here. How would that change what he's said?

That I agree with the idea that the more people that can gather for a friendly competitive game without griping at each other the better off the world is goes without saying.

I see nothing to support the conclusions you and silly are both drawing.

On the other hand, I see that y'all have decided that personal attacks are somehow going to do something positive here. I don't see that, either.

It's just mountains out of molehills, when you get right to it. I'd need to know a lot more about 2020 to completely evaluate what he's said, otherwise I might jump to silly conclusions that have no relation to reality...the very thing y'all are accusing him of.

Mountains out of molehills...

[ed]

I'm sure 2020 meant no harm by what he said. He doesn't strike me as being the malicious type.
Merely that his statement was poorly worded at best and could easily be taken the wrong way.
I, for one, found it offensive - maybe my wife's views are rubbing off on me.
I see no reason to have a go at religion, politics and economists when talking about a video game where you zip around a grid trying to core dump your enemies, among other things. And suggest that by playing this game, the world will somehow benefit.

What is put on the wiki might be thought by some to be the views of people that play tron. Since I am somehow entangled in this world of tron I think I ought to be able to object to what is said if I strongly disagree.
And 2020 did end his original post with "Be as critical as you wish".

[Lucifer]

It is a talk page, signed with his username...

[Phytotron]

Well, I've already stated that I'm giving up on addressing the content of this topic because I find it nonsensical and hopeless. But, since a couple of you have moved to commenting on my style over substance, I will address that, because it's probably called for in a wider sense.

You, Phytotron, are shouting your thoughts out like it's your dying confession.

See, that's perception. I could leave it at that. I should, really. It's a rather obivious point that shouldn't need elaboration. But, I'll take a little time to expound upon this a little bit just so we're clear.

I've noticed that I apparently have a certain way of communicating through type that gets taken in a very different way from its spoken counterpart, and has resulted in a reputation and perception of me that is basically a fabrication. Yes, even in "real life" I tend to be rather direct, frank, critical, satirical, sarcastic, even to a degree strident. But next to no one (dimwitted pollyannas excepted) ever reacts to it or characerizes it in the manner you folks have. Without touting my virtues (which would be quite unseemly), I can tell you that those who know me would describe a person and an orator quite apart from the character, even caricature, that some of you have made of me.

It's difficult for me to figure why this gulf exists. Granted, I don't spend much time considering how my posts are going to be perceived. (I'm sorry, but this thing is a very miniscule and comparatively inconsquential aspect of my life.) I type up what's on my mind, proofread it once for any glaring errors, then send it on. Still, that wouldn't seem to adequately explain it.

Perhaps it's because this is the first online forum in which I've ever participated, and I've never been an instant messaging guy, so there may be some linguistic subtlety I've overlooked. Do I not litter my posts with a sufficient number of smiley faces?

Perhaps my vocal inflection, facial expressions, body language, and other mannerisms have even more impact in the delivery and reception of my spoken words than I previously thought.

Or maybe it's just because I grew up on the stylings of Mark Twain, Richard Dawkins, and Jello Biafra, heh. Who knows. (Who cares?)

The point is, you guys see these posts of mine where you claim I'm all enraged and shouting and throwing about personal attacks and so on and so forth, when yo, that's really not the case.

So, I don't know what to tell you. Get used to me, ignore me, have a petty little chip on your shoulder for me, argue back at me, or simply stop concerning yourselves so much with style over substance. It makes little difference to me. I just had a very lovely and rather momentous happening in my life and I'm happy about it. Notice the theme here and in my previous posts in this thread? It's one of perspective.

[Phytotron]

By the way, if you want to contend that what I've typed are "personal attacks," then do understand that personal attacks go quite beyond simple descriptive terms—nouns and adjectives—just as dishonesty takes many forms.

[gnorty]

Sophisticated attacks are attacks just as surely as blunt ones.

In fact, assuming a reasonable level of intellegence on the part of the recipient, something like "Your political opinion is childish and your earnest efforts are futile" is more offensive than "Your mom's so fat..."

Having said that, I don't think that any of Your posts, Phytotron, were really intended as personal attacks, more just a kind of intellectual willy-waving. Not sure how that translates, or that my observations are accurate. In short, and at the risk of being accused of offensive comments myself, it all brings to mind the old comparison between internet fights and special olympics.

[Tank Program]

Hmm. Phytotron, your approach to the forums isn't that bad. Just every now and then you seem to take people, shake them by the shoulders, and slap them in the face. I was a bit ticked off before, sorry. But gargh for this being a game people argue way too much. Please stop.

[Phytotron]

Here's what I know: The term "willy-waving" has now been added to my personal lexicon. If nothing else positive comes from this topic, there at least is that.