win the Tronic Spoon!

KamP · Post by **KamP** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:40 am

Hey joe, maybe we should go in. friggin lobsters, man. Except i can't think of any lobsters that play fortress except you me and fonkay. bobin plays in the LC Fortress... umm... Invader's not a lobster right? just hangs with fonkay and i a lot... hmmmmm hmm hmm

ViTaL · Post by **ViTaL** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:35 am

Lol, SD you trained us?

Fonkay · Post by **Fonkay** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:52 am

ViTaL wrote:Lol, SD you trained us?

I was going to comment on that...but held my tongue.
I know that SD is very touchy on comments made by me.

DrJoeTr0n · Post by **DrJoeTr0n** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:53 am

Hmmm...alright

Lobster Mafia Is entering this Tourney.

Self_Destructo · Post by **Self_Destructo** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:03 am

Basically, in a way, because I made the server give points by core dumps. This made you guys focus more on core dumping rather then survival (like MBC). With the insentive of the point system I helped you out.

Post by **Lucifer** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:04 am

Alright, I'm a slut, I know it. You want to be on my team, just write your name on the list on the wiki.

You lobster guys are welcome to throw in with us, I think the people that are on my team so far are seen enough on lobster.

Also, if you see any of these people on the grid, give them a pointer and if they agree but for some reason don't want to register on the wiki, feel free to put them on the list. But get their approval first!

Manta
Akira
Fong (he was last playing under a different name, and it wasn't Ted either)
Fiyawajerx (sp?)
Santa Claus
Xevi

Note, this isn't to be interpreted as "If you're not on this list, don't join". Anybody who wants to be on my team, join.

This list is people that don't come to the forums and without being told wouldn't otherwise know, and that I would like. Of course, if you join, feel free to invite anybody you think would be good for the team. The emphasis is on trying to reach people who don't read the forums, under the likely accurate assumption that the forum readers are a minority of the total players available for the tournament.

Also, try to pm me im addresses and/or make a point of showing up to irc a lot. If you register with the bot, we can theoretically deliver messages to each other. (this is somewhat untested, the behavior we're getting doesn't seem to match our expectations, kinda weird)

KamP · Post by **KamP** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:56 am

Neato joe, we'll have to talk one of these days. I assume we can't use the LC Fortress for this right 2020?

maybe some other spoon.
This can be organized, we just need some brackets and agreements between two teams at a time.
As long as enough people are there, it's not a big deal what time it goes down.

Post by **Lucifer** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:01 am

I was thinking we should just all agree that by a certain time we'd try to play each other at least once. Then you sports guys can work out brackets and we can do play-offs, with the top two teams taking each other on. There aren't a whole ton of teams, it seems doable.

Your_mom · Post by **Your_mom** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:02 am

I was thinking we should just all agree that by a certain time we'd try to play each other at least once.

this brings about a good question when exactly will this take place, we have a date(s) but not a tme, no matter what time you pick your going to be eliminating people who can join in.

2020 · Post by **2020** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:49 pm

Your_mom wrote: this brings about a good question when exactly will this take place, we have a date(s) but not a tme, no matter what time you pick your going to be eliminating people who can join in.

um...
and now we reach and go beyond the limits of my organisational skill...
no idea how to organise the day...

but i like the idea of doing it positively without arguments...
leaving the competition for grid-play
but i agree with people's desires to get down to specifics

KAMP:
what's wrong with LC fortress?
i guess we could use several servers if need be
as long as both teams agree to use it... why not?
though we need to have some consideration about when games are played
so that the winners of the first round
can progress onto the next round... etc
until we have the finalists at the end of the day...

i guess we need to play within a reasonable amount of hours
so that the problem of timezones etc are only tackled kind of once...
if you get what i mean...?

LUCI:
a round-robbin sounds good...
how...?

your_mom:
elminate players?
you mean because of time-zones...
hmmm

don't know...
my one suggestion is
to use the wiki
to post up some alternative ways of organising ourselves
eg luci's roundrobbin thing
or ways to determine when to play
and once a few ways are elucidated on the wiki
we eventually choose a method that makes the most practical sense

we have about 4 weeks to organise this as best we can...
and this forum is linear
and i think the wiki might be a better medium to organise ourselves....
http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/THE_SPOON

and finally...
thanks guys for getting involved...
we might not be able to organise ourselves for the event
but at this point...
i am hopeful there are more practically minded people than me...

see you on the grid

Post by **Lucifer** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:13 am

As for specifics, I think we should probably have like a representative from each team to meet somewhere to determine when to play the games. You know, someone who knows his player's schedules and can say "We can play in this interval on these days". Loose-like. And away from the committee, because I don't think a committee can get all the games worked out by the day.

I'd also suggest that the day given should be more like a deadline for organizing teams, and set a minimum number of players. Personally, with the players on my team, I'll be happy to play any game with at least 5 players that show up to play, and play against a team with up to 7 players that show up. So I'd like a minimum of 5 players on a team that show up in order to play.

Then, there should be another deadline which says "You must have played all other teams once by this day". Post the results of the game on the wiki and players from both teams have to sign the results.

For organizing the games, if everyone is willing to use irc, then I can have the armabot open up another channel to use as a staging area. Then players can point a irc client at the staging area and use the bot's currently limited functionality to figure out what server to play on. The bot will log the chat, so it can be official-like.

Servers that volunteer to host the game should setup a loose team-balancing setting so the teams can get organized when they get on the server. They should also put a note in everytime.cfg saying "This server is an Official Game Host for the Tronic Spoon and players not participating will be expected to leave the server to allow the Spoon players to compete."

So here's my proposal which I'll copy to the wiki:

So, teams will be organized by April 15th, server admins should volunteer to host by that date as well. Then, to make up a date, all games should be played by May 30 for the initial rounds. Then some folks will volunteer to work out the standings, and maybe we'll have playoffs and a championship, maybe not.

Teams should meet with each other anytime between now and the end and determine amongst themselves when they'll play. Then, at the appropriate intervals, players ready to play will join the irc channel #armagetronteams and wait for other players to show up. When 5 players from each team have arrived, they can start playing, or at their option they can wait for more members.

Self_Destructo · Post by **Self_Destructo** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:20 am

Not everyone has IRC, and most people that aren't computer geeky ain't going to use it. I personally don't know what to do.

Teams organising who they play? Someone needs to make a branch or something with all of the teams and those teams that are set to match will setup the time and place themselves.

And I'll dedicate my server to the cause if needed. Edit: If it's easy to turn it into a fortress.

Post by **Lucifer** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:28 am

It would be nice if the game itself could just automatically support this, but that's not going to happen.

Um, an alternative to irc (and other suggestions should be offered, of course) is for the players to just join my server. The thing I'm trying to get around is "Everybody just join a fortress server and organize yourselves" because I expect several servers will appear. I'll be happy to reconfigure mine as a fortress clone for the duration and then revert back to normal play when it's over. So that makes 3, and I'm sure if the fe guys can field a team, they'll volunteer their server. Joe's volunteered the LC fortress. That would be 5. So which server will everyone join?

So pick a server that's not played a lot but is well-known, and use that as a staging area. My server fits that category just fine, I think. You don't have to play there, but you should meet there. And you could knock out some rounds while waiting. The idea with not played a lot is that if the server is played a lot, it could easily fill up with players that aren't competing. I can also give out the admin password to the teams and they can kick players that aren't competing precisely so they can organize themselves.

Could also use IM conferences, probably plenty of other things. The thing about irc is that you can open a window and join, stating "I can play now" by being there, and then go about your business. So I could work or study or something, but sit in the channel waiting for the other players.

Using irc isn't really that hard anymore. Well, it never really was, but it's pretty easy now. I'd volunteer to put screenshots on how to configure Konversation and Kopete, maybe others can volunteer for other clients?

Post by **Lucifer** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:08 am

http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Artemis_SPOON

Ok, I didn't want to rewrite the spoon page because it looked like good general stuff where if this particular competition is repeated under the name SPOON, the page should stand, right? So I made the Artemis Spoon page.

Y'all go check it out, edit it, whatever, untl it looks like the competition you want to play.

Edit: I also went ahead and had the armabot make the #armagetronteams channel on freenode. So you guys that are curious, go download an irc client if you don't have one already and check it out. If you think it'll work for you, great. If not, well, come up with a better staging solution.

Edit2: Bump for z-man, there's a server list for server admins to volunteer their servers. I figured we already needed a list so players know where to play that is friendly to the competition anyway. I didn't add any servers besides my own to it, though.

http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php? ... erver_List

KamP · Post by **KamP** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:37 am

I like the idea that lucifer had. here, an organization method

Since i think we have less than eight teams, we start out doing round robin matches
Every team plays every other team once, no more no less, gets one point for a win, no points for a loss. There's no tie in tron so that's not a worry.
Maybe Lucifer could make the armabot take in the match results as they come in, registering teams and whatnot (i don't think players need to be registered).

Next, the teams are ranked according to their points. Say it tallies up like this

1. Lobster Mafia 7 pts
2. Fighting SmegHeads 7 pts
3. [fe] 6pts
4. [mbc] 5pts
5. anarchic wanderers 3pts
6. somethingsomething 3 pts (btw, mazuffer is on two teams)
7. .=: 2 pts
8. xzl 0pts ;P

that's probably mathematically impossible, but the point is that here, we split it up into brackets

Code: Select all

Lobster Mafia vs .~XzL ---------
     1 vs 8                     |
                                |
                                |________
                                |        |
                                |        | 
[fe] vs somethingsomething------|        |
     3 vs 6                              |_____I win!
                                         |   >-;;,ccc3
Fighting Smegheads vs .=: clan--|        |
     2 vs 7                     |        |
                                |________|
                                |
                                |
                                |
[mbc] vs anarchic wanderers-----|
     4 vs 5

EDIT: I find that i can't use this friggin code thing, hold on i'm getting myself to a monospaced editor now
Sound good?

This method lets everyone have a first chance, a second chance, and couple more chances, and lets us play as many games really, as we could, and maximize you know. the fun. all this while maintaining a general simplicity. Plus, if you didn't notice, this method can be expanded to any number of teams, as big as you like, really.

If there's less than a multiple of 8, then you can give the top ranked people bye games until you get a multiple of 8
like if we didn't have xzl at 8th seed, and only had 7 teams, Lobster Mafia could play a bye game, and then play the rest normally.

Actual game rules:
mostly anything you could do in a regular game should be allowed, though i'm sure there could be some sportsmanship rules and whatnot. If anything there can be a referee, if we can manage that.

Rules on alternates: This is what interests me, if we play 8 person squads, then the server would be full. If we play five person squads, then we have enough epople for a good game, and can play with up to 3 alternates per team. Say you want to take a more defensive stance, you have one or two alternates in spectator mode who's sweeping is damn superb, tell em to come in and switch with two other players that are on the grid. Cheating (namely, having more than five players on the grid at a time)
Also, having players in spectator mode would keep people from coming into the server a little more. just a by-product.

Recording. I think the captain or organizer of each team ought to mke a recording of the match, and email it... somewhere... to someone. i'm not sure on this, but hey, if there's ever a dispute, then there should be recordings to look at.

games.
I say best of three matches. But that's because i like to play for a while.

Armabot: we COULD have the armabot do most of the real work on the bracket and organization front. make a couple commands, like
!register Lobster Mafia -- to register a team, the person that registers the team becomes captain of the team and has to make the rest of the calls
then both organizers from each team would tell the bot the results of a matchup, like
<DrJoeTron>!result Lobster Mafia D Fighting Smegheads 2-1
<Lucifer> dammit we lost!
<Lucifer>!result Fighting Smegheads L Lobster Mafia 1-2
the whole confirmation would be to make sure that no crazy underhanded team went and said they beat everyone.
then we could just compile the bracket manually here on the forums, unless we can automate that too.