Now running (But for a limited time) Shrunklords in Hell

[Swampy]

I loaded the settings onto a 2.7.0 server and hopefully it's the same as what they were when they were running on Lucifer's server. Let's see how it goes - the server is listed as Shrunklord's In Hell [NJ.US].

To those that wanted it back - have fun
To those that have never heard of it - give it a try

[KamP]

So these are the breakfast in hell settings of old?
I started playing after BiH went down, so hey
What i saw was pretty neat, reminded me a lot of swampland, but smaller and maybe a little quicker
But yea, you were right to postpone, the lag was bad

[Phytotron]

Yeah, lag was persistent and bad, to the point of being unplayable—that is to say, not the "deal with it" kind of lag.


The thing I liked about the old BiH was the speed dynamic, emphasis on the dynamic. It had fairly quick acceleration, but also had quick deceleration, which is what really differentiated it from Swampland. In Swampland and a lot of other servers, speeders, as we all know, like to build up a lot of speed then shoot out and ride the wave of that speed to an attack.

But in BiH, the dynamic had the effect of negating this speeding tactic because as soon as a speeder would take off from his grind/180/paperclip/slingshot to go after someone, he would very quickly lose all that speed he spent all that time building up. Then all the intended victim would have to do was a quick and short grind to make up the difference and take the speeder by surprise. I would often just toot around the arena going slowly, waiting and watching as the speeder maddeningly and with great concerted effort grinded and grinded and grinded for speed, thinking he was going to easily overtake me. Then when he would take his shot, I'd just make a quick move and pop him. The funny thing was that the speeders tended not to notice the deceleration and would shout out the inevitable "omg! wtf! lag!" Of course, this kind of scenario is possible in other servers as well, it was just more pronounced and amusing in BiH.

What should be noted, however, is it wasn't a great server for mazing or other similar things ("similar things" accounts for the different definition for mazing that I have from the wiki). The acceleration was the culprit here—just too much to do a lot of tight, confined, accurate stuff. For me, anyway, as well as, for instance, hanger, when the Crack Pipe was up. So if this does ever come back up, don't expect to be able to do much of that. It's more of a battling server.

[hang3r]

Well, BiH was one of my favorite servers, I just hope you find a better host swampy.

My experience on breakfast in hell was exactly how Oscilloscope described, it was really for skilled players, and I hope you bring it back

[Swampy]

I'm brining up another host that I'm going to attempt to run it on. This one is an IBM Pentium M 2.oGhz w/512 ram. Let's see how it performs on that. Look for it to be online around 6:30PM EST.

[CoffeeTeeCat]

i didn't think i can play in BiH. i also started playing after it was gone.
oh great stories, i wanna play with you in BiH.

i don't mind about lag when im playing for fun. but for sure, there was lag for me with 300 ping. so this may be just my case.
when i played with swampy today, my first experience in BiH, walls jumped and crossed his wall and my wall several times, as i saw

*ah i read the manual, it was lag. anyway

[2020]

you are such a connoisseur
osc

with your desscription
i am interested in giving it a go
thanks
swampy

[Phytotron]

Well, the bad lag seems to be gone, as far as I could tell, and I got a little playing time.

So, I mentioned to Swampy that it didn't feel quite right. Part of that might just be how long it has been since I played BiH, combined with my almost exclusive play at Shrunkland since then. It may also be due to the bit of change in my playing style since then. It may be something else, or nothing at all. Hard to say, heh.

But then there's the fact that it's running on 0.2.7.0, and with that come the associated bugs—the t-bones, bounce, and potential for a rip. The first one is the worst one. I think we would probably be in agreement that we don't want 0.2.7.1, so I reckon 0.2.8[whatever]? The gods are saying that this RC (whatever that means) thang is about to be released, so perhaps at that time? I dunno.

Oh, and I vote that the timer be brought back. That was something unique to Hell that me thinks ought to remain.

[Swampy]

I'm in complete agreement Osc on several of your points. You know, it could be possible that several of you played in BiH some time after Luci brought it online as a 2.8 server, and I brought it up on 2.7.0 thinking that many of you were more familiar with that version. I think the tar that Lucifer passed along has that pieces needed for me to get it going on 2.8, so I'll give that a try tonight (after the new episode of LOST (lol)).

[Lucifer]

Ummmm, the most recent breakfast in hell was 0.2.7.1. Soooooooooo, you should be running in 0.2.8 with the same settings and getting the same feel.

I'm having a memory of CYCLE_RUBBER_MINDISTANCE being 40, and that that was how the 180s were dealt with. Swampy, you remember when we were fooling with that on Swampland? We split, actually. We both had the 180s stopped, but you reverted your settings (I think by popular demand) and I didn't (which sent players away from my server forever).

I don't think I have to 0.2.7.1 version of the settings anymore, the ones I posted look like one of the early 0.2.8's. I have the 0.2.7.0 settings, I think.

Ok, this is definitely gettings closer.

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CYCLE_SPEED 6           # basic cycle speed (m/s)
CYCLE_START_SPEED 30     # speed at startup
CYCLE_ACCEL 22           # acceleration multiplicator
CYCLE_ACCEL_OFFSET 2     # acceleration offset
CYCLE_DELAY  .04          # min time between turns
CYCLE_WALL_NEAR 8        # when is a wall near? 
CYCLE_SOUND_SPEED 15     # sound speed divisor 
CYCLE_BRAKE 0           # allow braking
CYCLE_RUBBER 4           # niceness when hitting a wall
CYCLE_PING_RUBBER 12     # niceness when hitting a wall, influence of
                         # your ping
CYCLE_BRAKE_REFILL .05	 # refill rate of brake reservoir
CYCLE_BRAKE_DEPLETE 120.0	 # depletion rate of brake reservoir ( set to 0 to reenable pre 0.2.5 behaviour of infinite brakes )

That was the last version of the settings before I shrunk the arena and made it a timed match and stuff. But it was definitely in 0.2.7.1, this config.

[Swampy]

ok, now it's running as 2.7.1. 2.8 will come soon.

I may make a poll for this question, but what's the overall feeling about the stats that were kept on the original Breakfast in Hell? Should they be carried over and continued, or should we start from scratch?

[Lucifer]

Ooo, stats. I know I have stats for it, but there's a high likelihood they're mixed with Crack Pipe stats. I'd suggest just starting them fresh anyway.

[Phytotron]

Heh, carry over the old stats! I had really good ones. Actually, I don't care.

I should have been clearer, Swampy—I played BiH when it was 0.2.7.1 (the 2.8 Crack Pipe version was only up briefly), but I said we might not want it to now be in 0.2.7.1 since 0.2.8[whatever] is better.

Lucifer, you say you don't have the 0.2.7.1 settings. You sent me this some time ago, when the 0.2.7.1 BiH was still up (I think), though your comment here indicates they were the early ones for 2.8. So maybe this is what Swampy already has? I dunno. I post it anyway in case it's what anyone is looking for.

Hmmm, some of these settings aren't in 0.2.7.1, but here you go:

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# single player settings, active while only one client is connected

SP_EXPLOSION_RADIUS 4               # blast radius of cycle explosions
SP_WALLS_LENGTH 800                 # cycle trail length
SP_WALLS_STAY_UP_DELAY 7            # cycle trail stay up this long after the cycle's destruction
SP_TEAM_BALANCE_ON_QUIT 0           # balance teams if a member quits?
SP_TEAM_BALANCE_WITH_AIS 1          # balance teams with AI players?
SP_TEAM_MAX_IMBALANCE_PERM 100      # maximum permanent team imbalance
SP_TEAM_MAX_IMBALANCE 100               # maximum temporary team imbalance
SP_TEAM_MAX_PLAYERS 1               # maximum number of players per team
SP_TEAM_MIN_PLAYERS 1               # minimum number of players per team
SP_TEAMS_MAX 1000                       # maximum number of teams
SP_TEAMS_MIN 1                      # minimum number of teams
SP_WIN_ZONE_MIN_ROUND_TIME 1000000  # minimum time ( seconds ) the round has to be going on before the instant win zone is activated
SP_WIN_ZONE_MIN_LAST_DEATH 1000000  # minimum time ( seconds ) since the last interesting event ( player death ) before the instant win zone is activated
SP_FINISH_TYPE 1                    # what happens if all human players are dead? 0 for almost immediate round restart, 1 for slow round restart, 2 to letthe remaining AIs fight in fast forward mode, 3 to let the AIs fight on normally
SP_GAME_TYPE 1                      # 1 for normal duel, 0 for freestyle ( round only ends when everyone is dead )
SP_SIZE_FACTOR -3                   # arena size factor; increase this by two to double the arena size
SP_SPEED_FACTOR 0                   # cycle speed factor increase this by two to double the speed
SP_AUTO_IQ 0                        # flag indicating whether the IQ of the AIs should be automatically adapted to the player strength
SP_AUTO_AIS 0                       # flag indicating whether the number of AIs should be automatically adapted to the player strength
SP_AI_IQ 100                            # IQ of the AIs
SP_MIN_PLAYERS 4                    # minimum number of players; missing humans are filled up with AIs
SP_NUM_AIS 0                        # minimum number of AIs
SP_CYCLE_RUBBER 1

# the same settings, active when more than one client is connected

EXPLOSION_RADIUS 4                  # blast radius of cycle explosions
WALLS_LENGTH 800                        # cycle trail length
#WALLS_STAY_UP_DELAY 2              # cycle trail stay up this long after the cycle's destruction
TEAM_BALANCE_ON_QUIT 0              # balance teams if a member quits?
TEAM_BALANCE_WITH_AIS 0             # balance teams with AI players? ( set it to 0 to disable AIs completely )
TEAM_MAX_IMBALANCE_PERM 8           # maximum permanent team imbalance
TEAM_MAX_IMBALANCE 2                # maximum temporary team imbalance
TEAM_MAX_PLAYERS 1                  # maximum number of players per team ( set it to 1 to disable teams )
TEAM_MIN_PLAYERS 1                  # minimum number of players per team
TEAMS_MAX 1000                      # maximum number of teams
TEAMS_MIN 1                             # minimum number of teams
WIN_ZONE_MIN_ROUND_TIME 45          # minimum time ( seconds ) the round has to be going on before the instant win zone is activated
WIN_ZONE_MIN_LAST_DEATH 30          # minimum time ( seconds ) since the last interesting event ( player death ) before the instant win zone is activated
WIN_ZONE_DEATHS 1
FINISH_TYPE 2                       # what happens if all human players are dead? 0 for almost immediate round restart, 1 for slow round restart, 2 to letthe remaining AIs fight in fast forward mode, 3 to let the AIs fight on normally
GAME_TYPE 1                         # 1 for normal duel, 0 for freestyle ( round only ends when everyone is dead )
#SIZE_FACTOR -2                     # arena size factor; increase this by two to double the arena size
SPEED_FACTOR 0                      # cycle speed factor increase this by two to double the speed
AUTO_IQ 0                           # flag indicating whether the IQ of the AIs should be automatically adapted to the player strength
AUTO_AIS 0                          # flag indicating whether the number of AIs should be automatically adapted to the player strength
AI_IQ 100                           # IQ of the AIs
MIN_PLAYERS 0                       # minimum number of players; missing humans are filled up with AIs
NUM_AIS 0                           # minimum number of AIs

CYCLE_ACCEL 29
SIZE_FACTOR -3
CYCLE_WALL_NEAR 10
WALLS_STAY_UP_DELAY 7
CYCLE_SPEED 6           # basic cycle speed (m/s)
CYCLE_START_SPEED 30     # speed at startup
CYCLE_ACCEL_OFFSET 2     # acceleration offset
CYCLE_DELAY  .04          # min time between turns
CYCLE_SOUND_SPEED 15     # sound speed divisor
CYCLE_BRAKE 0           # allow braking
CYCLE_RUBBER 10           # niceness when hitting a wall
CYCLE_PING_RUBBER 12     # niceness when hitting a wall, influence of
                         # your ping
CYCLE_BRAKE_REFILL .05   # refill rate of brake reservoir
CYCLE_BRAKE_DEPLETE 120.0    # depletion rate of brake reservoir ( set to 0 to reenable pre 0.2.5 behaviour of infinite brakes )

CYCLE_TIME_TOLERANCE 100    # timeshifting settings.  Set to 0 to use only the timestamp on a turn
CYCLE_RUBBER_TIMEBASED 0 # rubber usage is based on distance travelled if this is 0 (default) and the time passed if this is 1. Intermediate values and values out of these bounds are supported as well.

CYCLE_RUBBER_SPEED 40    # logarithmic speed of wall approximation when rubber is in effect ( every second, you get closer to the wall by a factor of ~0.4^{this value} )
CYCLE_RUBBER_MINDISTANCE 0.01            # the minimal distance rubber code keeps you from the wall in front of you
CYCLE_RUBBER_MINDISTANCE_RATIO 0    # additional distance for every length unit of the wall you have in front of you
CYCLE_RUBBER_MINADJUST 0.01      # when adjusting to or 180ing into a wall, allow going closer by at least this amount ( relative to the last distance )

CYCLE_RUBBER_LEGACY 0                           # fallback to old, frame-dependant rubber code when old clients are present
CYCLE_RUBBER_TIME 10                            # Timescale rubber is restored on

CYCLE_RUBBER_DELAY .3                            # during this fraction of the cycle delay time, rubber efficiency will be multiplied...
CYCLE_RUBBER_DELAY_BONUS 0                     # by this factor ( meaning that rubber usage goes up by the inverse; a value of zero means rubber is completely disabled )

CYCLE_DELAY_TIMEBASED 1

# game rules settings

SCORE_WIN 0       # points you gain for beeing last one alive
SCORE_SUICIDE 0   # points you gain for every stupid death (race
                   # into the rim/your own wall)
SCORE_KILL 1       # points you gain for everyone racing into your wall
SCORE_DIE  0      # points you gain for every time you race into
                   # someones wall

LIMIT_SCORE 100    # score limit (all limits for one match)
LIMIT_ROUNDS 40    # max number of rounds to play
LIMIT_TIME  7     # max time (in minutes)

# ladder constants

Everything else is default. If you're running 0.2.7.1, fire it up as a dedicated server with this config file and comment out the lines it says aren't valid settings. Then set rubber to 5, and maybe a few other things. Not sure, really. This is just a quick one-off of what's on this computer I'm on....

The only thing I remember is that under 0.2.7.1 the rubber was at 4.

[Lucifer]

Those are early 0.2.8 settings. They even predate beta1, iirc, when I was testing a cvs server. There are some on there that swampy should try. I think if he's got it running in 0.2.7.1 that he should stay there until we get the settings figured out to what they were.

Anyway, these are likely to have come from BiH originally, since that file I sent you was derived from BiH anyway:

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CYCLE_ACCEL 29
SIZE_FACTOR -3
CYCLE_WALL_NEAR 10
WALLS_STAY_UP_DELAY 7

not sure about this one:
CYCLE_ACCEL_OFFSET 2     # acceleration offset

if any of these don't exist in 0.2.7.1, then don't use it.  If it does exist in 0.2.7.1, then this is likely the value that was on BiH:

CYCLE_RUBBER_SPEED 40    # logarithmic speed of wall approximation when rubber is in effect ( every second, you get closer to the wall by a factor of ~0.4^{this value} )
CYCLE_RUBBER_MINDISTANCE 0.01            # the minimal distance rubber code keeps you from the wall in front of you
CYCLE_RUBBER_MINDISTANCE_RATIO 0    # additional distance for every length unit of the wall you have in front of you
CYCLE_RUBBER_MINADJUST 0.01      # when adjusting to or 180ing into a wall, allow going closer by at least this amount ( relative to the last distance )

This is the timed match stuff:
LIMIT_SCORE 100    # score limit (all limits for one match)
LIMIT_ROUNDS 40    # max number of rounds to play
LIMIT_TIME  7     # max time (in minutes)

And silly's right, rubber was 4. It was 5 for awhile at one point, but I backed it off to 4.

The key settings are going to be RUBBER_MINDISTANCE related. You might start with a default config file for 0.2.7.1 and put just the rubber, acceleration, and wall length (and wall delay), and then screw with the mindistance stuff. Maybe I'll set one up on my laptop and see if I can recall those particular settings.

Of course, I think that for rubber, what nemo's got on his server is exactly the right feel, you just need to get the acceleration and wall length/delay from here.

Edit: Ok, I"ll get a 0.2.7.1 server up and screw with it. I just checked the examples directory in cvs and realized I had intended to have these settings in there for 0.2.8.

[Lucifer]

Ok, from the 0.2.7.1 server I'm running right this minute (and will probably leave up through the night, which isn't very long from now):

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SIZE_FACTOR -3
CYCLE_WALL_NEAR 10
CYCLE_ACCEL 29
CYCLE_SPEED 6
CYCLE_RUBBER 4
CYCLE_START_SPEED 30     # speed at startup
CYCLE_RUBBER_MINDISTANCE 0.01            # the minimal distance rubber code keeps you from the wall in front of you
CYCLE_RUBBER_MINDISTANCE_RATIO 0    # additional distance for every length unit of the wall you have in front of you
CYCLE_RUBBER_MINADJUST 0.01      # when adjusting to or 180ing into a wall, allow going closer by at least this amount (
CYCLE_BRAKE 0

CYCLE_TIME_TOLERANCE 10000    # timeshifting settings.  Set to 0 to use only the timestamp on a turn

SCORE_WIN 0       # points you gain for beeing last one alive
SCORE_SUICIDE 0   # points you gain for every stupid death (race
                   # into the rim/your own wall)
SCORE_KILL 1       # points you gain for everyone racing into your wall
SCORE_DIE  0      # points you gain for every time you race into
                   # someones wall

LIMIT_SCORE 100    # score limit (all limits for one match)
LIMIT_ROUNDS 40    # max number of rounds to play
LIMIT_TIME  7     # max time (in minutes)

Those are, canonically, the Breakfast in Hell settings. You should have a death zone, too, of course. I'm not even going to try to figure out what it used to be, just make one that's fun, or don't have one at all. I'll update the file in examples so hopefully the upcoming release candidate will have them in there.

Which reminds me, nobody else has contributed settings for the examples. Who wants to throw in? Swampy? You have any neat settings snippets to throw in?