Is Elon still as evil after today?

[kyle]

I think you still misunderstand what I've been saying. I literally said I knew Trump would take away the clean energy incentives, that did not bother me, Government should not be selecting winners and looser at this point, clean energy is better and is needed for AI training.

I agree everyone should have a chance at the American dream, but there are correct ways to enter, to become a citizen, you can't have the American dream if you are not an American? But yet so many, were crossing illegally, let in, I know it's a smaller portion that were causing the violence, but they were basically being given immunity status and not deported under Biden / Democrat controlled states. The thing you don't understand is government and non-profits were funding illegal immigrants so much, it raised the cost of housing so drastically, that American Citizens were being displaced from their houses, because they could not afford the increase in rent. When you incentive so many people to come over here, they come. This is what I mean by handing them the American dream, without even working for it, literally just crossing the boarder and getting it.

The whole immigrants eating pets, literally had no effect on my vote. It was more because of how the Biden administration did things. He snubbed Tesla from the Ev summit, calls Mary the leader in Ev's (lie). It was all to support unions, then asked for agencies to look into Elon Musk, which in turn has screwed over Delaware, but they shot themselves in the foot over the last 20 years. They have basically been run by Democrats, so much of one side is very deadly, I mean look at the mess the California has also become. What Chancellor Kathaleen McCormick did to Tesla is the reason companies, that used to incorporate in Delaware, are fleeing to other states. She has several ties to Biden, and basically took the compensation package away from Elon, based on a minority shareholder (6 shares). And after Tesla shareholders Voted To pay Elon once again, to correct the "mistake" that it was not disclosed that Elon's brother was on the board, she basically said you can't do that. Going against the will of the shareholders.

It's a shame that there are more and more, extremism on each side, there is literally nothing in the middle where I am, and the sides keep growing further away from me, but at least I know too much of one evil side is too much, and you have to switch it up a bit sometimes.

[sinewav]

...why didn't you go to see it, Elon did...

Believe it or not, I actually worked at Eagle Pass for a week doing an installation job. It was pretty quiet there and everyone was relaxed. This was in 2012 though. I lived in San Antonio then, an hour south of Lucifer.

Government should not be selecting winners and [looser] at this point

This is a meme. The government absolutely should be involved in activities that benefit the public good, especially when those actions combat harmful, entrenched industries like fossil fuel companies. In fact when it comes to utilities those industries should be publicly owned not private.

you can't have the American dream if you are not an American?

What are you even saying here? The American Dream is "a dream of social order in which each man and each woman shall be able to attain to the fullest stature of which they are innately capable, and be recognized by others for what they are, regardless of the fortuitous circumstances of birth or position." SOURCE

They have basically been run by Democrats, so much of one side is very deadly, I mean look at the mess [the] California has also become.

Sit down bitch, you don't know anything about California. Not only did I live there for 13 years, some of my closest friends still live all over the state. California is amazing and I'd be there today if not for extreme homesickness.

and the sides keep growing further away from me

And yet, on the political compass both sides are solidly right-wing. You really do live in a sheltered world distorted by the social media.

[Monkey]

The thing you don't understand is government and non-profits were funding illegal immigrants so much, it raised the cost of housing so drastically, that American Citizens were being displaced from their houses, because they could not afford the increase in rent

The number one reason that house prices and rents went up was a backlash from the banking crisis that was caused by bankers. It started in the USA then it hit us here in the UK. We are still suffering from it now. Luckily, a few years ago, my partner and I were able to buy the house I was already renting, from the landlord, for a reduced price, which was offered to us because I had put so much money etc into the house already.
I would like to add that the already rich bankers were allowed to keep their large bonuses, etc despite completely failing at their jobs. This rewarding of failure at a high level is, historically, a very capitalist/right wing thing.

[Lucifer]

I pegged you as a far right extremist because you are a far right extremist.

If vote for person on right right peg as far right extremist, this is not the way things actually get done, this is just idiotic attacking that isolates the sides even further,

No. You cannot do this. You can't rant about how evil Democrats/leftists/liberals are and then blame us for the polarization. You're the problem. You are *not* the solution. We have been reaching out to conservatives for decades to try to get work done, and y'all keep pulling away. Then, out of anger for a black man getting elected president, y'all did *everything* you could to sabotage his presidency and then turned around and elected the single most racist person you could have found, someone who built his entire political persona on questioning whether or not the first black president counted as a "real american", and then campaigned basically on being the person who gets to define "real americans".

No, you cannot do this. You are the problem, not the solution. The rest of your post clearly shows it.

you continue to fail to process and have in your mind because i voted trump I hate immigrants. which is a complete lie.

You keep lying to yourself that I am a far right extremist and deciding all my actions are theirs like is a hive mind virus, yet I continue to point out the things the differentiate me from the far right of today.

It's like you have broken code in your mind, that cannot comprehend there is some middle ground, but since you did not vote left, you are automatically far right.

You say the things far right extremists say, you vote for the policies far right extremists vote for. You don't get to wave a flag saying "I'm actually in the middle" while spouting far right extremist talking points. And you definitely don't get to be offended when we call you out for it.

I know where the center is because of how I became a "leftist". You see, I used to be in the middle. I was a swing voter, more or less a non-voting swing voter. The last conservative candidate I would have voted for president was John McCain, and had he not pandered to the evangelicals and also not run against Obama, I would have voted for him. But you know what's happened? The right has moved so far to the right that now I am a "leftist". I haven't changed any significant views.

There is no invasion. If there were, I'd see it. I don't think you should listen to a new Yorker tell you there is. Those Haitians weren't eating the dogs, they were the workforce that revitalized that town.

If you were so close to the border, why didn't you go to see it, Elon did, and this is more or less an invasion. https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1707565081750290910
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/30/nyre ... losed.html

If I have to drive 2 hours to the border to see an invasion, there's no invasion. That's literally not how invasions work at all. The capital city of the biggest and second most populous border state is a prime target for invaders. And while we do have a large hispanic population, that's as much because the ground I'm sitting on when I write this used to be part of Mexico. I don't know if you know that, but white people literally culturally invaded Texas, took control of the state government, and then staged a rebellion to be an independent nation. The very thing you're spouting off about happening here has already happened, it was done by white people, and it was done to bring slavery to Texas. Had Mexico not outlawed slavery, those white settlers would probably have been happy to be Mexican. And that's just Texas. The way Texas, New Mexico, California, and the other western states became states in the USA was by a literal military invasion. It's called the Mexican-American war, and it was initiated by the Americans, and it was straight up territorial conquest.

I just don't understand how you can't see the irony in all your whining about an invasion from Mexico that's turning our country non-white when Mexico is the country that literally had that happen to them, by Americans.

Edit: Forgot to respond to this.

Government should not be selecting winners and [looser] at this point

This is a meme. The government absolutely should be involved in activities that benefit the public good, especially when those actions combat harmful, entrenched industries like fossil fuel companies. In fact when it comes to utilities those industries should be publicly owned not private.

I believe in the Declaration of Independence where it basically says that the only legitimate purpose of government is to secure the blessings of liberty for all within it's borders. I have a modern take on it, of course, because I don't live in 1776.

Things like healthcare, a living wage, regulating the excesses of capitalism, these things all secure more liberty for each of us. You're not truly free if you're hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt because you beat cancer. You're not truly free if you have to work three jobs 70 hours a week just to be able to pay rent. You're not free to enjoy the land you live on if it's covered in pollution from unregulated industry. You're not free to enjoy the land you live in if all the great places have been cut down and industry moved in to drill for more oil. You're definitely not free if the changing climate forces you to go without food, water, and other essentials because the completely preventable climate change rearranged where all the water goes.

The guy you voted for, Kyle, has promised to make us significantly less free to benefit the few chosen people, and you still haven't figured out that you're not one of his chosen people.

[kyle]

Well, I posted this is a way to show that the values Elon hoped were within Trump, that I hoped Elon could help impose on Trump. have separated from what Trump is doing but Lucifer continues to harass me calling me the problem, trying to say I don't understand, keeps saying I love everything Trump does. I don't and I've been saying that here. I do think Trump did a few decent things, but went a bit too far on them.

There are a lot of things that caused the housing issues, but the biggest one was, we moved a bunch of migrants in, and government regulation was making it so we could not build enough houses fast enough to support everyone. Corrupt businesses reach to the government to get as much money as possible, and when the government was paying to house the migrants, they know they are going to get that rent check over someone else, effectively kicking that other person out to live on the streets. Not enough supply and high demand was happening.


I've not read everything recently here, But hopefully the new political party, America, will have much higher values, and actually work towards brining support to everyone.
-reduce debt, responsible spending only
-modernize military with ai/robotics
-pro tech, accelerate to win in ai
-less regulation across board but especially in energy
-free speech
-pro natalist
-centrist policies everywhere else

[Monkey]

I do think Trump did a few decent things, but went a bit too far on them.

Such as?

There are a lot of things that caused the housing issues, but the biggest one was, we moved a bunch of migrants in

The bankers were allowing pretty much anyone to get a mortgage at that time and so many people, who weren't responsible enough, or who weren't earning enough, got mortgages and weren't keeping up with their payments. That is why they lost their homes.

hopefully the new political party, America, will have much higher values, and actually work towards brining support to everyone.

hopefully one day you'll pull your head out of Elon's butt long enough to realise that he, like trump, doesn't give two shits about people like you. unfortunately, by then, it will be too late.

less regulation across board but especially in energy

why would you think less regulation in anything is a good thing?

[Z-Man]

I want easier ways for legal immigration, I knew voting for Trump I would not get that, but it does sound like he is backing away a bit on the ICE crackdowns.

The budget for ICE just got quintupled (different ways to calculate this give different numbers, because it's not just one simple number, but the increase is massive no matter how you break it down).

I've listened to countless interviews with Elon, read every post he made on X for the last 10 years or so. So I see a completely different person that you guy see. Is mine more factually accurate I'd like to think it is

And you also buy all his products... now imagine one of us would say something like that about, say, Bernie Sanders, or Soros, or Gates, what would you think?

I'm glad you are slowly waking up to the fact that Trump is a big old liar.

I wonder how you would think anyone of us would think Musk opposes the (now passed) budget because Trump said it was because of the EV incentive cuts? There are as many reasons to oppose the budget as it has pages Tax cuts to the rich, cross-financed by cuts to aids to the poor (like medicaid) and increased national debt would be top of my list, there may be others I just don't know about (The science funding cuts are probably in there, too).

You're right about renewables and EVs being essentially unstoppable at this point. That does not mean governments should stop incentives for them, there is still a lot of inertia to overcome, and it matters whether the transition is 90% completed in 2040 (bad) or 2060 (worse!). And some aspects practically require government intervention, like making sure the power grid infrastructure is up to the task, and maybe making big fat heavy vehicles unattractive with elevated taxes or parking fees (like Paris did). Keep in mind that governments are still supporting the fossil fuel industry financially.

Also, if you must know, I started thinking critically of Musk when he started the process of buying Twitter. And probably started thinking of him at all at that point.

[Word]

Stiffed by Tesla: The car company owes small businesses millions in unpaid bills (CNN)

[Lucifer]

There are a lot of things that caused the housing issues, but the biggest one was, we moved a bunch of migrants in

The bankers were allowing pretty much anyone to get a mortgage at that time and so many people, who weren't responsible enough, or who weren't earning enough, got mortgages and weren't keeping up with their payments. That is why they lost their homes.

There's one critical step you left out, because it wasn't a bunch of irresponsible people. It was people who could afford the mortgage as sold, but they got a variable interest rate, which meant their monthly payment wasn't static. It would change month after month. This was fine, as long as the banks themselves were stable and almost everyone paid their mortgages. The banks weren't stable because of their gambling on the derivatives markets, and because many of the mortgages given were explicitly illegal (despite the fact that the people getting them *could* pay the payment initially) people started defaulting, and this led to a domino effect where people would default, then the interest rates would crank up for everyone else, causing more defaults, causing higher interest rates, and so forth.

Edit: More about the 2008 recession. After the series of defaults, banks didn't have the cash to be able to offer lines of credit, which put a stranglehold on businesses relying on their lines of credit just to do business. It's not that the businesses themselves were living off credit, it's that they couldn't order supplies/pay utilities/etc. without those lines of credit. Many of them were able to switch to cash, but it also stopped any new hiring they were doing and all sorts of things. We just don't fully appreciate how much credit is required to keep our economy going. I mean, at the end of the fiscal year, when most businesses balance everything out, they have the cash to pay their bills and then some, which is called profit. But the crash and end of credit happened in August/September, and three months of businesses unable to pay their bills despite having the cash did a lot of damage. Just look at one month's worth of a ship blocking the Suez Canal and how much inflation we're still struggling with from that one incident happening on supply lines that were already strained from the Covid work shortage. The shrinkage during those last few months of 2008 did so much damage it took a full 2 years for the businesses to recover from it, and arguably our economy still hasn't fully recovered.

Without the illegal mortgages being sold, the crash would have still happened because of the underlying bank weaknesses due to losses on the derivatives markets, but it wouldn't have been nearly as severe as it was.

As for when we started thinking critically about Elon Musk, Kyle, don't give me that shit. I told *you* about Elon Musk. I've been watching him and criticizing his bullshit since he started SpaceX, well before Tesla.

[Z-Man]

Stiffed by Tesla: The car company owes small businesses millions in unpaid bills (CNN)

Not surprised to learn that. "Hey, how about we don't pay our bills?" was a big part of Musk's cost-cutting strategy after the Twitter takeover.

[sinewav]

Stiffed by Tesla: The car company owes small businesses millions in unpaid bills (CNN)

In case anyone wants to claim this is a fake news slam piece on Tesla, I have a friend who lives very close to that plant in Austin. Before building, Tesla promised the local community, contractually, they would develop the infrastructure needed to support the facility (roads, water, electricity). Tesla built absolutely nothing. My friend has been in meetings with Tesla for years pending lawsuits in order to get them to comply or settle and they simply won't. That's not really a surprise, it's just how any large corporation is.

[Word]

Stiffed by Tesla: The car company owes small businesses millions in unpaid bills (CNN)

In case anyone wants to claim this is a fake news slam piece on Tesla, I have a friend who lives very close to that plant in Austin. Before building, Tesla promised the local community, contractually, they would develop the infrastructure needed to support the facility (roads, water, electricity). Tesla built absolutely nothing. My friend has been in meetings with Tesla for years pending lawsuits in order to get them to comply or settle and they simply won't. That's not really a surprise, it's just how any large corporation is.

Sounds like your friend should do an interview with Newsmax so that some more people are exposed to that reality!

[kyle]

... Before building, Tesla promised the local community, contractually, they would develop the infrastructure needed to support the facility (roads, water, electricity). Tesla built absolutely nothing.

If I took what you said seriously here would be people complaining of power outages all the time, They would have no water, and the from what I've seen the roads to the facility look pretty nice. but they obviously never took a flight out of the airport to see the huge solar panels on the building. Did you know that they have a program with home-owners (of powerwalls) in the area, to help stabilize the grid? I know that the water usage, is actually much lower than what was anticipated, maybe there is no need to expand based on that.


There is always the I don't see money so they are liars. Just remember at the end of that video they also said this was happening from Apple too. Payment is a sticky thing when it comes to contracts. I'm not saying Tesla never dropped the ball on any of the claims are all bogus, but maybe it cost more than they estimated to do the work, and the overage had to be covered differently, thus taking more time for approval to pay. or maybe the contracts had unfavourable terms.

Overall to me there is not enough information in that video to determine if it's propaganda or not.I want more of the data, because yes I distrust fluff pieces like this.

[Z-Man]

Just remember at the end of that video they also said this was happening from Apple too.

At a tenth of absolute scale (in the text version below, I even find it at 1/20th, comparing Apple's total with Tesla in Texas only), while Apple has roughly 4x the yearly revenue than Tesla (currently. The factor was even higher in the past). So relatively, Tesla is at least 40 times worse than Apple there.

Payment is a sticky thing when it comes to contracts.

That is true. Small construction contractors are often victims of big boys withholding payment. "So, you were promised 1M for this work, right? We'll give you 250K. Don't like it? Well, you can always sue us, but we will find enough faults in the work you did to prolong proceedings, and maybe you can get us to pay 500K in the end. If you survive that long, that is. Mwahaha <Lights cigar and turns away in comfy boss chair>"

You don't get to be a billionaire by playing fair with your business partners.

I'm not saying Tesla never dropped the ball on any of the claims are all bogus, but maybe it cost more than they estimated to do the work, and the overage had to be covered differently, thus taking more time for approval to pay.

Sure, individual reasons may exist, but if it happens statistically significantly more often than with other companies, suspicion of malicious intent gets hard to shake.

or maybe the contracts had unfavourable terms.

Those contracts were made beforehand, so no excuse.

Overall to me there is not enough information in that video to determine if it's propaganda or not.I want more of the data, because yes I distrust fluff pieces like this.

Well, the written version has graphs and stuff.
https://edition.cnn.com/2025/07/31/us/e ... liens-invs

Does that count as data? I suppose the raw sources are available somewhere, this describes how to get it:
https://legalclarity.org/are-liens-publ ... find-them/
So do your own research if you please.

None of that matters much to me because as I said before, not paying bills is in Musk's official playbook.

[sinewav]

I know that the water usage, is actually much lower than what was anticipated, maybe there is no need to expand based on that.

A source on that would be helpful because a lot of information surrounding the Del Valle plant is being withheld and I haven't found any recent water statistics. I'll add that my friend is part of the Tesla Outreach Community Alliance (TOCA) and her story mirrors what journalists have also reported on -- that Musk will say something that sounds nice but then his lawyers will say "actually we have no legal obligation to do that so too bad." It's all very typical of large companies and Musk is not special in that regard. The Del Valle factory doesn't even pay a lot if it's employees a living wage for the Austin area.