Armagetron is NOT dead, here's why and how to keep growing

[Jip]

[...] Yes, we need to get the .4 release into a condition that everybody can use it and it becomes the normal release that everybody uses. [...]

Can we make a list with all things that have to be done for that?
I think there are a lot of tasks that you can do without being a programmer (like the translations, wiki, help entries, sound etc.). It would be nice to have a list and have some guiding from the developers for the programming tasks.

[Ratchet]

[...] Yes, we need to get the .4 release into a condition that everybody can use it and it becomes the normal release that everybody uses. [...]

Can we make a list with all things that have to be done for that?
I think there are a lot of tasks that you can do without being a programmer (like the translations, wiki, help entries, sound etc.). It would be nice to have a list and have some guiding from the developers for the programming tasks.

I'm dreading that, though..

I despise 0.4. It just feels less... smooth to me. The sounds are even more rickety (sure, maybe that's more tronnish, but not as familiar and smooth sounding).

There are great additions, ones I'm sure that many people drool over; including but not limited to:
- The ability to change font / text size
- The minimap
- An actual "clock"
- Other things.

Then there are things I could complain about; including:
- The minimap.... (wouldn't it be great if it was toggle-able?!)
- The clock.... (that ugly, sore thumb. it's blue and cluttery)
- Lack of 0.2.8.3.2 glancing style
***

***Disclaimer - I have not used 0.4 in well over a year so more features may have been added/removed


Ultimately, for me personally (and maybe for other people -- my motive for even making such a post), this is what I would like to see in 0.4 to make the experience as enjoyable as possible:

- The ability to easily change from the old, 0.2.8 sound "pack" and the 0.4 sound "pack"
- The ability to toggle the glancing style from the new 0.4 to the old 0.2.8
- The ability to remove the clock at the top right and display it digitally only ( and perhaps more options for an analog clock )
- Less clutter of menus (lots of 'great' ideas were implemented into the menus [see "friends" maybe? I forgot, etc.] but perhaps never really took off)
- - Maybe make the game more polished and "hide" more from the user to make the menus less intricate and more straightforward
- - - Want to play a game?! Great, stop spending all this time digging through words and just get on your way!

***Disclaimer - I have not used 0.4 in well over a year so more features may have been added/removed

Ultimately, to me, it's not about which version I'm using as much as it's about the features or lack thereof that I've grown accustomed to. It's like the OS industry where most corporations are still using Windows XP / Windows 7 because Windows 8 and the following versions aren't as appealing and as familiar.

I'm the same way about tron and upgrading to 0.4.

[Lucifer]

You want to attract more players? Offer servers to new players. When my new cable modem gets here, I'll set one up, but it's a slow internet connection (by today's standards, it screams compared to the connection I originally ran Breakfast in Hell on).

I happen to think Shrunkland and Bebop in Harlem are ideal for new players, especially the former. In fact, it's the thing I'm most proud of with that server, that it's great for newbies as well as experienced players. And both explicitly discourage one of the things that I think is to blame for the decline in population: artificial game rules.

That reminds me. Can you send me the settings you've got for Bebop in Harlem? I'm going to run a new server, and I'm going to call it Breakfast in Hell (currently it's Breakfast in Austin), and I know I want it to be derivative of the original. But based on what you say here, I shouldn't just clone my clone, know what I mean?

Zone-based game modes and made-up game rules like open/loose/dogfight, and their attendant communities, killed this game. (The rise in multibinding didn't help, either.)

I suspect the zone-based game modes helped, but the rest of your criticism is true. Except the game isn't dead.

@Ratchet:

The new "sound pack" has only added sounds. Nothing's taken away.

I'd like to say "just get used to the glancing". The camera works much better now than it ever has, and if you've actually logged a few hours with the new camera and disagree, I'd like to hear about it. The consensus so far is that the new camera really is better.

I'm concerned about the menu layout, as well, but I haven't flowcharted it to see how complicated it really is. I should probably do that. Also, there's a bug in tutorial mode where the client locks up when you get to the "grind a wall" tutorial. Obviously not ready for release, and I'm still catching up on it.

The framerate is lower than it has ever been, but oddly, it doesn't affect gameplay. Actually playing is even more responsive than it has been before. I'm enjoying it.

The clock is part of the cockpit, nowadays. Your criticism really works out to something like "Some way to pick amongst included cockpits". The clock was originally a hack I threw in, but became a widget for the cockpit. As presented, the cockpit is pretty complicated. We need more included cockpits, and we need a way to choose from each one. (Right now, it doesn't matter, because I can't run my cockpit on trunk code, so obviously the search routine is wrong, somehow, and it's probably something I did)

Anyway....

[compguygene]

By your cockpit do you mean Lucifer's Playroom? If so, it works fine for me as long as alpha blending is turned off.

[Ratchet]

@Lucifer:

Your post is evidence to my disclaimer I haven't given it much of an honest chance, as you alluded.

It's mostly my fault. I just felt like throwing my 'first impression' for 0.4 out there. I'm sure with a little bit of motivation and "want-to" I could make it as enjoyable to play on as 0.2.8.3.2, but perhaps that's why I don't. I'm just lazy. When I do have time for tron I usually play a round or two -- not so much worry about the experience on my end. The only "problem" I have with tron at all is lag, and that's hardly anything to do with development or my client. My frames are out the roof, anywhere from 1000 to 3000 so I'm not sure that 0.4 would affect the game visually for me. Again, I may be wrong!

I haven't researched much about cockpits, but is that an easy process? Maybe a better in-game interface for cockpits would be a great addition.


Edit:

Maybe I'm just retarded, but I also always have a ton of dependency errors and other problems when I try to compile the game from source (on both Linux and Windows).

Maybe an up-to-date and well written tutorial on how to build the game from scratch would be a slight boost to people's interest in the game? I've seen a lot lot lot lot lot of people come and go through here in the past asking how to build the game from source because they were running into issues. When I tried to do it, a long time ago, epsy was kind enough to join my via Google Video and helped me get it working. It took even him a few headscratches and digging around to get it working.

Again, minor things, but I'm trying to contribute to this as best I can.

[Word]

BTW, yesterday we had a great CTF game and lots of old guys you normally don't see anymore showed up, when i entered it was already full, and I had to wait quite long to get to play. Looks like the server type is alive and breathing again despite the lack of Ww's server. And there were some new people we could help a bit, it seemed like they enjoy it.

I still have no clue who hosts that server, but he's my hero.

[ConVicT]

I've an idea to bring back some player base, but I'm no good at coding.
Would someone be willing to write me a code that would display a ladder at the end of each match for the top ten players of the server?

Edit: Just to clarify, this isn't the idea. This is just something that will add to the idea to make it better, also thinking of using a very old server for the sake of the bug that doesn't count colour codes towards names when you're admin-renamed.
I know it doesn't sound like much, but you'd be surprised how many players my server lost when I got the server updated to when that bug was fixed. call it a bug, but I saw it as a very good addition to the game.
I mean on things like Minecraft, you have to buy a rank just so's you can change name colour, and people spend a lot of money doing that, I've no idea why not allowing it in later releases of this game made it better in the decider's eyes.

[takburger]

I've an idea to bring back some player base, but I'm no good at coding.
Would someone be willing to write me a code that would display a ladder at the end of each match for the top ten players of the server?

http://forums3.armagetronad.net/viewtop ... 76#p285476

[ConVicT]

Thanks, tak, I'll get on this soonish, and I'm not sure but I think maybe my host has this as an example script too, now that I think about it.

[sinewav]

On the topic of ladders like this one, whatever script you use should also have some weighting to it so you can avoid the "xdude effect." This happens when a mediocre player spends so much time in the server that he gets an unrealistically high rank simply from beating n00bs and players who just drop-in to check out the settings. Maybe keep a database of player activity to cross-reference from?

[ConVicT]

Couldn't that kind of thing be avoided by a login ladder rather than a name ladder?
That is what I'm asking for.
I assumed that whomever supplied it would've just knew I meant that.

Sorry for the confusion.

[compguygene]

I think that sinewav may not realize how different of a ladder that would be. The solution described by light and used by all but CTWF is just a list of the log generated by the Armagetron ladder. One effect of the Armagetron Ladder is that if you keep very active in a server and winning, you stay on top. The only way to negate that effect would be to create your own ladder, as CT has done with CTWF.
You can complain all you want about the Armagetron ladder, but it does accomplish one thing very nicely. It really motivates players to play often to stay on top of ladders if ladders are seen and it encourages new players. As nice as the CTWF ladder is, it can be very discouraging for a newer player to find that it's nearly impossible to get on top.
Sadly, nobody has game servers with websites that list the ladders anymore. When that was the case, the regular player ladder motivated newer players. But the Rounds won motivated long term players. I think that really helped Ww servers stay poplular back in the day.

[Phytotron]

though I agree with you about Bebop in Harlem style servers being ideal for new players– and that the deathmatch format is a simple way to encourage combat– the lack of activity in servers like that and the activity in fort/sumo/hr servers suggests that those game modes kept the game alive rather than killed it.

Nah, that's evidence of how that gimmicky crap drove out everyone else, has prevented the regular accumulation of new players, and all that's left anymore are the handful of festering zombified corpses of those who actually like those game modes.

That reminds me. Can you send me the settings you've got for Bebop in Harlem? I'm going to run a new server, and I'm going to call it Breakfast in Hell (currently it's Breakfast in Austin), and I know I want it to be derivative of the original. But based on what you say here, I shouldn't just clone my clone, know what I mean?

Mine isn't a clone, though. It has deviated quit a bit from your original settings. I'm not sure you would even find it recognizable.

So, you're somewhat vague here—what exactly are you wanting to accomplish? Don't you have some of your own original Breakfast in Hell settings?

[compguygene]

(Right now, it doesn't matter, because I can't run my cockpit on trunk code, so obviously the search routine is wrong, somehow, and it's probably something I did)

[/quote]

I just ran into the same problem when I re-installed the OS and then arma on my computer. Then I remembered that the armagetron resource repository no longer exists.
There is an easy fix

Code: Select all

RESOURCE_REPOSITORY_CLIENT http://crazy-tronners.com/resource/

fixed it for me. The CT repo has the playroom cockpit and all the other arma resources at the same relative locations, so your cockpit, Playroom (which I have loved for about 4 years now) works!

[Durf]

How to repopulate tron:

repopulating tron

After all, intimacy is better than enmity or animosity.
Tron needs some loving.