2nd FFA, Signups open!!! March 23 (sun)

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Nanu Nanu
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Re: 2nd FFA, Signups open!!! March 23 (sun)

Post by Nanu Nanu »

The biggest trouble was with who was a substitute and who was not. Arbitrary rules were made up on the spot to decide this. Things got switched around, people got confused, we ended up with not enough players not on the subs list because we moved things around. This was really the only big problem that lead things to being such a fiasco.
Prema wrote:The second match starts, a new beginning,
Nanu and Prema, Sui and Ninja,
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takburger
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Re: 2nd FFA, Signups open!!! March 23 (sun)

Post by takburger »

sinewav wrote:Since we are discussing it, I think we should explore what went wrong and how to do it better. There are lots of talented people here. I might even be inspired to write a web-based tool to help pick teams. So what exactly happened? Where did the process break down?

I have a vision of a small tool that works like a turn-based strategy game. Captains login, then the program guides them through the picking process, one at a time. Would this be something hard to create?

I think FFA is a really cool tournament and I hope we can have many more of them.

Theo, don't get upset! Let us use this as an opportunity to create a better system. It is obvious the interest is there and will continue as long as mistakes are not repeated.

That is a great offer. Feel free to do something.
Nanu Nanu wrote:The biggest trouble was with who was a substitute and who was not. Arbitrary rules were made up on the spot to decide this. Things got switched around, people got confused, we ended up with not enough players not on the subs list because we moved things around. This was really the only big problem that lead things to being such a fiasco.
To summarize:

We had 52 signed up players + 2 subs.

It makes 8 teams (6*8=48) + 6 subs. which makes 40 players to pick (48-8capt).

So we took the list of players and said that the last 4 registered will be subs.

Then we looked at our captains, over 10 captains registered, we had 4 on IRC. So we asked people to send texts, and find the captains and asked people on online to play for the pickups.

At the same time we had to start the process, randomizing captains and start picking. (so our list at this point was not well presented anymore)

We started picking and it seemed that captains had not read the rules, and were about to argue every single thing. Seriously I started on irc like: 'ok listen we gonna proceed like that:" then while I was starting to type people just chatted random stuff "lets do this, lets do this". Why not listening and proceeding step by step ?

And then we picked, we got some confusions with the pick order (that was stated in the rules, we linked the FAQ but who cared..) we got a confusion with a list (with the captain stuff it was messed up and we were in a hurry). So we just took decisions, that were on the instant, not always fair but at the end there are people mad only about 1 or 2 picks. over 40 players. .

Sine, to have a great tool, we would need something that take the full list of players and captains, see how many teams it can do, shuffle captains and asks them to pick in a fair picking turn. Once teams are picked, it generates 2 texts that can be pasted into the wikis, one for the teams list and one for the brackets.

From my point of view, I almost RQ from that pick, I can't stand to work on something where people are so slow and unorganized.
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Nanu Nanu
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Re: 2nd FFA, Signups open!!! March 23 (sun)

Post by Nanu Nanu »

takburger wrote: So we took the list of players and said that the last 4 registered will be subs.
Everything would have gone a lot smoother if we had actually done that though. For some reason we decided to put the captains who did not show up on the subs list, even though they had signed up way before the last 4. The list of players we had didn't match up with the sign up one on FFA wiki so that was also confusing. 4 players that should have been picked (Illusion, Sain, Luck, and G5) because they signed up before the 48 player mark are now subs because of all the mess. G5 isn't even on any list for the updated wiki I believe. Now these subs may not make it or it's also likely we'll be missing people and they will be able to play. But if everyone showed and these guys didn't get to play, I'd be pretty upset if I were them.
Prema wrote:The second match starts, a new beginning,
Nanu and Prema, Sui and Ninja,
versus those same old hoes grinning.

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Re: 2nd FFA, Signups open!!! March 23 (sun)

Post by chrisd »

Note that on the FFA challenge board the time zones BST and CEST are used. However, during the FFA the relevant areas are using GMT and CET instead. Daylight saving time will come in effect one weekend later. I was going to change this but I noticed that the code says

{{:Ladle/SummerTimes}} <!--(April-October)-->
<!--{{:Ladle/WinterTimes}}--> <!-- November - March) -->

So I do not really know what to do....

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delinquent
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Re: 2nd FFA, Signups open!!! March 23 (sun)

Post by delinquent »

Well, I see no reason why my suggestion should have been discarded so quickly.

Players sign up, and subs are not defined until captains have picked teams. The remaining players are on the bench until such time as they are needed.

Such a ******* faff on man. Tak, once you'd made the list on the pad, you shouldn't have changed it when people had already started picking. I saw Matoso in the reg list and was going to pick him until you moved him, etc etc. I don't doubt that a number of other people had the same quarrel.

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theo
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Re: 2nd FFA, Signups open!!! March 23 (sun)

Post by theo »

chrisd: 16 fixed it. We're using CET/BT ofc.

deli: We already discussed it. Picking the best players and leaving the supposedly weakest players on the bench is against the spirit of this game mode.

Also tak & me weren't the only ones to change the list. That's one of the problem we had. Next time it'll be better to ensure that only captains will have access to a read only list and all they will have to to is say a name. That was nobody will be able to mess voluntarily or by mistake with the list, the table or anything else.

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takburger
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Re: 2nd FFA, Signups open!!! March 23 (sun)

Post by takburger »

Nanu Nanu wrote:
takburger wrote: So we took the list of players and said that the last 4 registered will be subs.
Everything would have gone a lot smoother if we had actually done that though. For some reason we decided to put the captains who did not show up on the subs list, even though they had signed up way before the last 4. The list of players we had didn't match up with the sign up one on FFA wiki so that was also confusing. 4 players that should have been picked (Illusion, Sain, Luck, and G5) because they signed up before the 48 player mark are now subs because of all the mess. G5 isn't even on any list for the updated wiki I believe. Now these subs may not make it or it's also likely we'll be missing people and they will be able to play. But if everyone showed and these guys didn't get to play, I'd be pretty upset if I were them.
yes. we moved captains who did not show to sub. makes sense because if they don't show up for their job, the probability is high they don't show up for the game. also they are incentivized to do the job they signed up for.
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Re: 2nd FFA, Signups open!!! March 23 (sun)

Post by chrisd »

The solution by 16 is creating the problem that the times are now no longer correct for the americans. They are already on daylight saving time while we are not yet having summer time in europe. Let us take the time in the brackets of 19:30 UTC as the standard...... For the Euros this is standard ladle time but for the americans it starts an hour later than normally. The previous scheme actually made me write the wrong times in my agenda, because I was writing down the GMT+1 times as displayed in the table. This is all rather confusing....

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theo
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Re: 2nd FFA, Signups open!!! March 23 (sun)

Post by theo »

chrisd wrote:Well, the solution of 16 solves it for the Euros who are not yet having summer time but it creates a simular problem for the Americans who are already having daylight saving time...... So, now they are seeing time zones that do not apply to them.
Alright.

I edited the wiki.

Both tables are displayed now. I also added a warning.

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theo
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Re: 2nd FFA, Signups open!!! March 23 (sun)

Post by theo »

Ok, people are still confused by the date.

I set up a countdown. You can find it here : http://ladle.fr3.phx.be/ffa02_countdown.txt

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DaGarBBaGeMAN
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Re: 2nd FFA, Signups open!!! March 23 (sun)

Post by DaGarBBaGeMAN »

theo wrote:Ok, people are still confused by the date.

I set up a countdown. You can find it here : http://ladle.fr3.phx.be/ffa02_countdown.txt
This countdown better be off by at least one hour, or I can't make it. Why the hell would you start a tourney that late? Why would you even start one that doesn't start at ladle time (which everyone is familiar with)? There's many ppl on grids right now, expecting the event the start in half an hour. This is ridiculous.
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bilbo baggins
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Re: 2nd FFA, Signups open!!! March 23 (sun)

Post by bilbo baggins »

DaGarBBaGeMAN wrote:
theo wrote:Ok, people are still confused by the date.

I set up a countdown. You can find it here : http://ladle.fr3.phx.be/ffa02_countdown.txt
This countdown better be off by at least one hour, or I can't make it. Why the hell would you start a tourney that late? Why would you even start one that doesn't start at ladle time (which everyone is familiar with)? There's many ppl on grids right now, expecting the event the start in half an hour. This is ridiculous.
technically it did start at ladle time, but there weren't enough teams to merit a first round so the first round is the 1/4 finals

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Gazelle
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Re: 2nd FFA, Signups open!!! March 23 (sun)

Post by Gazelle »

W/e shit starts so late! oh well...
Last edited by Gazelle on Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Fippmam
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Re: 2nd FFA, Signups open!!! March 23 (sun)

Post by Fippmam »

bilbo baggins wrote:
technically it did start at ladle time, but there weren't enough teams to merit a first round so the first round is the 1/4 finals
Then why not just move the entire tournament up?

I probably don't have that much time of my Sunday to blow anyway - we'll see though.

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Nanu Nanu
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Re: 2nd FFA, Signups open!!! March 23 (sun)

Post by Nanu Nanu »

There are 2 times tables below the brackets which are both wrong since they have it saying the 2nd round starts at 2:30edt and 2:30est, but for utc-edt(which is what we're using now) it starts at 3:30 = confusion

@gaz it says 19:30 UTC
Prema wrote:The second match starts, a new beginning,
Nanu and Prema, Sui and Ninja,
versus those same old hoes grinning.

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