Education! (Split from Drawing Game)

[Z-Man]

Z-Man, that topic would be huge.

Yes, let's not go there. However, to be clear, if you think this game condones murder, then there is a serious communication breakdown somewhere.

As for the "why one and not the other" question, Phyto's links should cover that one. My take is that at least in the societies players hail from, murder is not a widespread social problem; it simply is too rare. Rape, however, is. So violent smack talk of all kinds is more acceptable because you can be relatively sure it really is just smack talk, they do not really mean it and that it has no consequence in the real world. Also, for pure self-interest: Do you want more girls active in gaming? Well, guess what drives them away more.

[Kinda Slow]

Then, if you would think it's ok to kill in a game, why is it so wrong to rape in a game? How is one harmless, while the other is promoting so much aggression and violence?

The word kill has many shades of meaning, ranging from stopping something, (a ball or an engine), or deleting a section of an article all the way to causing the death of someone. The word rape has not taken on such nuances in English. Someday it may take on other meanings, but it has not done so yet. You can argue that it is acceptable, and that you want to redefine it. I don't think you will get anywhere on this forum, though. The word carries such strong imagery that most of us can't get past it. It really only signifies one thing in my mind. That thing is detestable.

When I see someone using the word in a game, I assume that person is a classless, inconsiderate, and destructive thug. If he said it in my house, I would forcibly remove him from my presence. I realize that may appear judgmental, but I can live with that.

[Light]

Do you want more girls active in gaming?

Well, when it comes to this, I don't personally care. I know men outnumber women, but I don't really see a shortage of women in gaming. From my experience, more men are interested in Tron than women, so it would only make sense that Tron gaming would hold the same sort of bias. I've seen quite a bit of women here though, and that picture you posted is pretty realistic of what happens here.

In many RPG's or FPS's, it's not as bad. I've even been in clans that women outnumbered men, and it's not anything like here. That is something that I've noticed here, as for a long time, people seemed to think I was a female. Since everything is server-based, I don't see any way to actively help that problem though, unless I can catch it in my servers, or one in which I'm admin, but that's not nearly enough to make a dent.

you can be relatively sure it really is just smack talk, they do not really mean it and that it has no consequence in the real world.

Just so you know, I'm not trying to stick up for the people that do use it, but I don't see it being much different than that. When "rape" is used in games, it's more like "I beat you 4/5 matches! You got raped!", where it's obvious they're not saying, "I'm going to come hold you down and **** you". It's pretty equal I think to saying "You got owned!" (Slavery reference? Was never sure ..), or "I killed you so bad!". It's just not meant to show they are going to carry out the action, and it's very obvious.

Like I said though. I'm not trying to stick up for those that do, as I don't actually agree with its use. I just don't see it as such a huge threat. When it comes to actual rape jokes though, I see a big difference. Simply using the word to mean something else completely, doesn't in my opinion actually seem to help cause it to happen.

And just to touch on what you've said some. There are quite a few times where people would take beating and killing a lot more seriously sounding than rape ever is in games. They will talk big about coming to x and detailed about what they want to do. I've yet to hear rape actually be threatened to someone like that, in any way.

[Lucifer]

When I look at the list of signals you can send to a program in a POSIX OS (which is where TRON takes place), I see a SIG KILL, but no SIG RAPE.

This suggests to me that there is a difference here you're not acknowledging.

[Light]

When I look at the list of signals you can send to a program in a POSIX OS (which is where TRON takes place), I see a SIG KILL, but no SIG RAPE.

This suggests to me that there is a difference here you're not acknowledging.

Yes, because when people say it, they're talking about stopping a process. They use it as in killing a person. When they say rape, they're not talking about actually raping someone. So, because there's a command labelled kill, it makes it ok to use the work kill in any way, but because there's no rape command, you can't use it at all? hmm ..

[Kinda Slow]

We are talking the difference between the common accepted usage of the word, kill, as opposed to the desire of some to use a word that has essentially one meaning. When I kill the engine in my car, nobody thinks of murder. When I kill a process on my computer, murder never enters the picture. On the other hand, the mere mention of the word, rape, evokes a singular image for most people.

Spoken languages change, and that words change meaning. Any linguist knows that. But the casual use of a word like rape, which is so charged with negative and offensive meaning, is distasteful enough that many here are repelled by it. I understand that some of you think it is accepted in gaming. What we are saying is, NO. It is not accepted. At best, it's tolerated, but it is not generally accepted by everyone in the gaming community. The reaction you are seeing here should be indicative of that fact.

What I am saying is this. If I encounter you on the grid, please don' think that using that word is acceptable.

[Lucifer]

We are talking the difference between the common accepted usage of the word, kill, as opposed to the desire of some to use a word that has essentially one meaning. When I kill the engine in my car, nobody thinks of murder. When I kill a process on my computer, murder never enters the picture. On the other hand, the mere mention of the word, rape, evokes a singular image for most people.

Indeed, there's a reason the word "rape" is not the verb that means "to use a rapier" even though there is generally a thrusting motion associated with both things. I find that to be quite a meaningful comparison.

In fact, I'm sure we could generate a list of meanings for "kill" that do not involve "murder". However, how many meanings can we list of "murder" that don't mean killing a person?

I declare equivocation! Your (not "Kinda Slow") argument is fallacious.

Spoken languages change, and that words change meaning. Any linguist knows that.

Does this mean you're a cunning linguist?

But the casual use of a word like rape, which is so charged with negative and offensive meaning, is distasteful enough that many here are repelled by it. I understand that some of you think it is accepted in gaming. What we are saying is, NO. It is not accepted. At best, it's tolerated, but it is not generally accepted by everyone in the gaming community. The reaction you are seeing here should be indicative of that fact.

Indeed, to say that it is generally accepted as a statement is one thing. You are merely stating an observation. We provide the hypothesis, evidence, and theory to go with it, and that's united under the heading "rape culture".

However, for those in this thread who have stated that it is generally accepted and that justifies it are committing the appeal to the masses, which makes their argument fallacious as well.

[Light]

That's like saying that, because there's different definitions of ***, it's okay to call a homosexual it. It's still used as "murder", whether or not it could mean other things in another context.

However, for those in this thread who have stated that it is generally accepted and that justifies it are committing the appeal to the masses, which makes their argument fallacious as well.

And nobody here was trying to justify the use of it. There were simply those who understand that it's generally not frowned upon in most gaming communities, and those who don't, thinking that this community is the norm, which it's not because it's so small.

[ConVicT]

When I look at the list of signals you can send to a program in a POSIX OS (which is where TRON takes place), I see a SIG KILL, but no SIG RAPE.

This suggests to me that there is a difference here you're not acknowledging.

Yes, because when people say it, they're talking about stopping a process. They use it as in killing a person. When they say rape, they're not talking about actually raping someone. So, because there's a command labelled kill, it makes it ok to use the work kill in any way, but because there's no rape command, you can't use it at all? hmm ..

If i script a rape command, does that make it ok to say it then? LOAD OF BS!

[ConVicT]

Here is a well loved player saying it right here, and what do you know, it's a girl. (Sorry for brining you into this Meg)
Also "Delinquent" not telling her to stop saying it.

[Z-Man]

it's a girl.

Glad you bring that up. Because the alt text of the comic I linked earlier (hover above the comic)? "But one of the regulars in the channel is a girl!". It's the "But one of my friends is black and he is totally fine with me calling him n*****!" faulty defense.

Also "Delinquent" not telling her to stop saying it.

As far as I can tell, it doesn't show him at all, so...

Also, stop. See, people are arguing that too many people are being eaten by bears. And to counter that, you point out that people are eaten by bears all of the time, and attach pictures of people getting eaten by bears. You are missing the point. Nobody is arguing against the fact that it is happening.

[Light]

Also, stop. See, people are arguing that too many people are being eaten by bears. And to counter that, you point out that people are eaten by bears all of the time, and attach pictures of people getting eaten by bears. You are missing the point. Nobody is arguing against the fact that it is happening.

But the problem is, not many people care that bears are eating people. They have been trying to argue they do, but if most people did, it wouldn't be like it is today.

[ConVicT]

Also "Delinquent" not telling her to stop saying it.

As far as I can tell, it doesn't show him at all, so...

Pretty sure he's <|Monr0e (If i'm right, he said nothing).

I only posted it because of your comic though, most girl gamers are just as bad, if not worse than guys tbh, and i can think of 6 girls just in Tron, that are worse
In one case she was the one asking me to send naked pics and go on cam (not meg).
What I'm saying is: Your comic makes no sense, unless you're assuming that guys like being asked for naked pics but girls don't.

The comic is a stereotype, and isn't the case in gaming!
Especially these days when one can't get his gf off the feckin' internet

[Light]

Especially these days when one can't get his gf off the feckin' internet

But when she gets into a game .. she's gone from this world.

[delinquent]

I am Monroe, yeah.

Tbh I didn't even notice her say it, and I couldn't give a flying **** anyway. I know whats true to me, whatever value anyone else wishes to hold is their own business.


Is this really still going on?