Lower the Rubber

[Concord]

Fortress needs lower rubber.
Rubber is boring. It allows cycles to stop moving. Not moving is the opposite of action.
Rubber makes the game easier. It lowers the value of precise play by forgiving mistakes.
Rubber is illogical. Rubber comes into effect when you hit a wall, but if you are in contact with it, how can you get closer to it?

Fortress should adopt lower rubber settings that use rubber only what is designed for: to compensate for lag.

Reply to add yourself to support this change.

Petition Signatures:
Concord
sine.wav
Zimblunk
Hoax
Appleseed
Monkey
Roterbaron

[AI-team]

No thanks

[sinewav]

As a low rubber fanatic, I support this idea 100%. I may even organize a low-rubber Fortress tournament for the dozen or so truly hardcore Tronners out there. Really, low-rubber separates the men from the boys, so to speak.

[breeze]

Would be interesting certainly. I'm all for experimenting. I couldn't say if I would support it or not without trying it first, and I'm sure most people would agree with that. An ideal option would be to make a trial server, and try to get some games going and have people post their feedback.

Edit: Now that I saw sine's post, maybe a separate tournament could be an option. I like breaking out of the tried and true but there needs to be continuity for competitive play. I'd be interested in playing in said tournament either way.

[LOVER$BOY]

== Begin Opinion ==

It's been... almost 2 years since I properly played on the grid. So, what I say might not be considered accurate but I am speaking from a perspective. Still, read ahead though.

If your planning on making a fortress server with 1 or 2 rubber, forget it... You will die quickly and that's boring. 5 is already the normal and so far, the best setting. Right now the setting works fine, allows fair play between pros (who suck when lag gets in) and noobs (much worse than skilled).

It's bad enough that most people get lag and smash into walls and everything with only 5 right now. With rubber of 1 or 2, it's almost virtually impossible for a proper game or a fair fight. People will die quickly, that's correct, but then the whole thing will finish quickly and that's boring.

Instead of wanting to make things more complicated than they are (lag as the biggest matter), try to do something that works for EVERYONE! If your making a server just for yourself and your friends, DON'T TELL US! We will support you, perhaps, but don't tell us to reduce the rubber with just that. Take into consideration of all the factors that will come into play. "Be prepared for the worst!"

However if your talking about High Rubber and Shooting style, then I say "GO FOR IT!" That is an solo type of battles and a perfect spot to reduce the rubber to the dangerous limit and then play. You could call it even the 0-Balance Death Match. mmm... Now that I think about it, perhaps I work on that kind of idea myself

== End Opinion ==

Hope I didn't sound too rude. It's just that I get fired up whenever I see a post like this of someone posting without giving consideration of all the factors. I know most of the hosts are closer to home but you are forgetting that there are people playing this game, all over the world. Many of them don't have the good internet that most people do (most have their parents pay for it).

At the very least, keep this separate from the other servers. Otherwise, many players (especially newbies) will complain and that's annoying too!

[Overrated]

Are you asking to make it 1, 2, 3, 4? Somewhere in between? I'm willing to experiment with like, 2.5-3 area, but not sure if any lower.

Takes out a lot of the gameplay currently if you lower it by more than about 2 (double grind, centering, mazing/camping in a sumo zone).

Not sure, but I think lowering rubber would just make it so no one will attempt to be aggressive at all (defender's and attacker's the same.

[Word]

I'm undecided. 5 rubber means I can try to outdig someone, or dig harder to get out of something, and it's an important factor for both defenders and attackers. As a defender, you often find yourself being outnumbered and all you have is enough unused rubber to kill the guy who dared to enter first. And if you're attacking with a speedkill you need enough rubber to stay between the cycle and trail end of the defender, follow him in his mazes etc., and then seal him so he dies fast enough.

And if I'm playing in certain US servers, 5 rubber is already little less than enough to do what it is designed for (yeah, most Americans can say that about European ones, I suppose).

Now if you don't have all that - which would probably make regular fort more challenging for some, myself included - you'd probably see people getting all too cautious and fort will get more boring than it currently is. Plus, you might upvalue "open play", if it's misinterpreted.

Instead I'd rather upvalue the defender and prevent the zone from shrinking as long as one player of the respective team is inside it. That would lead to longer but more interesting rounds, imo.

Maybe do both? Heh.

[Gonzap]

If you're going to lower rubber then we'll need better servers. I can't count how many times I slid or froze and rubber saved me of a certain death. If you can guarantee me the server won't screw up then i'll support lowering the rubber.

[Zimblunk]

I support this petition. Lowering rubber will make the game more fun.

I would like to add to Concord's post.

Rubber is boring. It allows cycles to stop moving. Not moving is the opposite of action.

Not sure I agree with that last sentence; still, rubber is boring.

Compare higher-rubber servers like Afrothunder's (30 rubber) to low-rubber servers like Mud Puddle (5 rubber). In Afrothunder's high rubber server, despite the actions of individual players, people play on average with less focus. They drive around aimlessly more often and chat more often. In Mud Puddle, people are more likely to play seriously and get the kills — and the win. Fortress is a very serious game mode, and it's been found — especially in the fortress community — that the more seriously the community plays the game, the more fun the game is. Let's make things more serious — let's lower the game's rubber.

Rubber makes the game easier. It lowers the value of precise play by forgiving mistakes.

The less forgivable mistakes are, the faster people die. The faster people die, the faster the round ends. Players may play more defensively, but since they will also die more rapidly, things will even out. Also, the defense will be forced to stay further from their tail, meaning that (a) they will shrink faster, and (b) they are more prone to cutting. Entering the enemy defender's zone is another way to progress towards the end of a round.

Shorter rounds mean that your death is less detrimental to the team's progress. As it currently stands, when you die, not only do you give the enemy two points, but you are unable to support your team for the remainder of the round. Shorter rounds reduce that time when you are sitting out and can do nothing. Of course, we will need to increase the number of points needed to win the match (and do some other point balancing) in order to keep a game at the same length. However, with more of the team alive and contributing for a greater percentage of time, games will be more dynamic — and fun.

Loversboy is concerned that, without 5 rubber, lag will kill gameplay as people die mainly from lag rather than from skill. I think we have leeway as to how much rubber we can remove before lag is the leading cause of death. Also, by reducing the value of staying alive, we reduce the impact lag has on gameplay.

Rubber is illogical. Rubber comes into effect when you hit a wall, but if you are in contact with it, how can you get closer to it?

The distance you get closer to a wall depends NOT on how much rubber you use but rather on the amount of time you spend digging into the wall. This is not well-known among the community, because it goes against intuition. We want the game to be as intuitive as possible; not only for the current community, but also for the future community. We talk about how to attract new players to the community all the time; a brand new player is more likely to stick with a game if the game mechanics are intuitive. Therefore, we should reduce the presence of rubber in the game.

We can do away with less rubber. Even though we may remove a lot of the current gameplay, think of how much new gameplay we have to gain!

[Cronix]

Change sumo rubber to the same settings then please. I want it to be equal.

And yet again if it aint broken then why fix it?

[Concord]

let's stay on topic

[DaGarBBaGeMAN]

No thanks... Like over said, while rubber may have disadvantages, it also accounts for most of the gameplay that makes fortress so dynamic. Not only this, but taking away rubber will also mean taking away interest in Ladle and fortress altogether. I can guarantee you that fortress activity will go down from instituting this change. With activity already dwindling in tron, do we really want that? Why make such a major change to an age old game mode? I'm fine with maybe having tourneys with low rubber, but I strongly oppose making this change in Ladles and Public Fortress servers.

[Concord]

rubber accounts for none of the gameplay that makes fortress dynamic.
please explain how you can guarantee me activity will go down?
major changes have been made several times before.

[vov]

No. Fortress needs its rubber.

No thanks... Like over said, while rubber may have disadvantages, it also accounts for most of the gameplay that makes fortress so dynamic.

+1

I'd opt for slightly stronger/more brakes and acceleration and less base speed instead, I actually tried that and it works and it makes it more tense than no rubber.
Because, think of it: No rubber means much much lower speed. And speed is what makes plays. What you will end up with without rubber is like local game vs. bots, no fancy moves at all, no interest.

I also tried the opposite; 50 rubber fort. It's so whacky it's fun again (but not for competitive ofc)

edit: concord: speed, that is what rubber gives, see above
edit2: zimblunk: more speed currently means more rubber usage and less deep grinds, which means a higher speed in tight spots makes rubber worth less, which is already going your direction

[sinewav]

It's like when states raise the tax on cigarettes, all the addicts freak out. I never knew there were so many wusses here, haha.