Aliases and the Ladle, Let's discuss and do something.

[Venijn]

none of you new players know how handle yourself.
you have no respect for the game or for your opponent. that's because the rules eliminate most of the need for responsible individuals.
except in instances like this one. and you're so conditioned, you automatically start talking about adding number lists of new rules and bullet points and other crap.
You're not running a country here. It's a very simple tournament. You sign up and you play. Done.
We don't need a legal system, just stop walking around with your prick out.

Interesting. We're discussing the actions of 6 people, not the entire community, this post is in pretty poor taste. I have plenty of respect for this game, which is why I even bother trying to contribute to it. I'm sure there are many others that are the same.

[wap]

and I don't care about the aliases or people signing up twice. sign up on every team. it doesn't matter what team you're signed up for.
once upon a time, you didn't even need to list players at all

what I care about is these people lying to their teammates. it's insulting that preserving the secrecy of an alias took precedence over honesty with their clans. since when is it that important?

It's never been about winning. It's not about statistics. It's not about player ratings.
It's about respect. It's about playing the game.

you play hard and you play fair because that's what you want your opponent to do.
And you use a real name because that's what you want your opponent to use. it's kindergarten stuff.

Please bear with me for going a bit off topic, but wow, are you really talking about respect and honesty with clans?

Not so long ago you asked me at least two times to leave CT and join your clan, how is that respectful to CT? Play fair Concord, because that's what you want everyone to do.

Didn't you learn in kindergarten to not be such a hypocrite?

[Olive]

it's insulting that preserving the secrecy of an alias took precedence over honesty with their clans

Not so long ago you asked me at least two times to leave CT and join your clan, how is that respectful to CT? Play fair Concord, because that's what you want everyone to do.

People change their tags often, some might grow tired from playing with the same regulars, in arma and professional sports. I believe Concord is talking about internal and external transparancy from any clanmember.

Lets try to retain a general discussion, instead of targeting people out of emotion or blissful ignorance.

----

Personally I believe the issue is taken out of context. IMO, there are 2 possible options:

- We allow players interpretating the rules and regulations in their advantage. This will either result in a 100page manual on how the ladle should be run or a community that doesn't give crap about fair-play and unwritten moral codes.
- A central authority will pass their judgement on the drama, allowing the others to enjoy the game. The authority does not even have to participate in the ladle, they should be actively pursuading the goal of fostering sportsmanship and fun ladles, whilst being active in the community and up-to-date on some thriving issues.

[Venijn]

Yeah... what Olive said.

[epsy]

4. No use proxies to edit the wiki. To be enforced with a Wiki bot.

For the record, I have never said that, and I still do not see the point in the "No proxy" proposals. Only Team Captains are allowed to edit the thing in the first place.

Also, Concord, I do not understand how you prone removing rules and keeping aliases while questioning nux about his identity. I am mildly in favor of those positions, as rule creep is the root of my disinterest for ladle. The whole "rules" thing started as a knee-jerk reaction, and oh surprise where are we today? We're trying to lock down the ladle and add more unenforceable rules before even attempting to enforce the current ones.

[þsy]

I agree that some sort of decision-body making needs to be set up if we're going to implement consequences to breaking rules and/or general etiquette

But, as to how, I really don't know... Leaving decisions in the hands of a few is a potentially terrible idea; how would be guarantee a range of ideas to be represented? How do we decide who should be in such a body? How can we guarantee personal issues don't come into people's judgements? These are all questions that need to be considered before we put forward any set ideas

Personally, I'm against having such a body. The only potential punishment from breaking rules in ladle is to ban the guilty of future ladles, and I can't see how this could work out to the benefit of the ladle or its players. Despite drama in the past, the ladle has functioned well the way it has, and it should continue to function in this way. As I have already suggested twice before, a general agreement to not use aliases could be easily established (and to be honest, thanks to all this discussion, it probably won't happen - at least for a long long time)

So I think we may have solved our troubles through this deliberation already. Perhaps we should leave it at that? I can't see us coming to any consensus as to what to do, as we have such a range of ideas as it is. Unless Lucifer comes up with a really nice sign up system which everyone agrees with, I don't think anything will happen regardless. Time to drop this issue?

[0000]

I agree that there doesn't seem to be much support for any rule changes - maybe it is time to drop it. This should have been done as a poll. The two "sides" are so subjective that most discussion about it will be silly.

The Ladle authority or other structural changes seem ok, but that wasn't really what this was about.

none of you new players know how handle yourself.
you have no respect for the game or for your opponent.

This comment is infuriating for several reasons. Please be more careful next time.

[compguygene]

Agreed. Rules changes are definitely out. So, the real question is what structure will be done? Epsy seems to have started something with the @x project. Lucifer seems to have an idea of how to set a site up for this. I like what epsy has done so far in that it seems to be setup with the idea that it can be used for any tournament. Really, I would think at this point it's up to epsy and Lucifer to decide where to run with this, or to work together on something.

[Word]

I think I should change my standard font size to "huge". And make it red.

[-*inS*-]

what I care about is these people lying to their teammates. it's insulting that preserving the secrecy of an alias took precedence over honesty with their clans.

That's as good a reason as any that this discussion shouldn't be taking place in the community or these boards. Let the clans deal with it themselves.

I think I should change my standard font size to "huge". And make it red.

You don't seem to know much about the situation, seeing as your last long post was pretty unrelated to what happened. No one played for 2 teams.

Not so long ago you asked me at least two times to leave CT and join your clan, how is that respectful to CT? Play fair Concord, because that's what you want everyone to do.

People change their tags often, some might grow tired from playing with the same regulars, in arma and professional sports. I believe Concord is talking about internal and external transparancy from any clanmember.

It is hypocritical though to preach about the honor and sanctity of clans while having little to no loyalty.

A central authority will pass their judgement on the drama, allowing the others to enjoy the game. The authority does not even have to participate in the ladle, they should be actively pursuading the goal of fostering sportsmanship and fun ladles, whilst being active in the community and up-to-date on some thriving issues.

That makes sense to me, we don't want this to happen every time someone feels slighted. Do you have any method in mind for appointing these arbitrators? At the moment we have the team leader system where everyone has a vote, however it hasn't stopped people from whining on here to say the least.

[Concord]

I'm loyal to people, not to tags.

[Word]

You don't seem to know much about the situation, seeing as your last long post was pretty unrelated to what happened. No one played for 2 teams.

"Playing for two teams" as in "being signed up for two teams".

[Cody]

Really if we're all getting an up roar over players who were still signed up on the other teams but yet playing for the other team, all we can really do is look at the mistake of communication here. Did a player signed up twice play twice? I don't think so.

I think the problem that really falls on this is the actual player themselves.

If they knew they weren't playing on their signed up team they should of remove themselves.
If they didn't know they were signed up on the clan team, then they should take that issue up within the clan.

If you want to hide behind your alias til the tournament is over so be it, its your right as a player to play under a different name BUT its also your responsibility not to deceive your own clanmates and make sure the ladle challenge board is reflecting the correct teams, see your name on a team that you're not playing for? remove it.

Not much can really be done here cause in fact they didn't play twice.

[Word]

Well, if you sign yourself up two times (or more, haha), it's quite probable that you get to play twice if one team has a bye/a seed, then you can lose your first match 'without worries' (if you don't care about the rules). As I said, I know players who did that and maybe Team Baylife would have done the same in a slightly different situation. Do you really think someone who deliberately signs himself up several times wouldn't see that as the next logical step?

[Cody]

Well, if you sign yourself up two times (or more, haha), it's quite probable that you get to play twice if one team has a bye/a seed, then you can lose your first match 'without worries' (if you don't care about the rules). As I said, I know players who did that and maybe Team Baylife would have done the same in a slightly different situation. Do you really think someone who deliberately signs himself up several times wouldn't see that as the next logical step?

By all means Word please help us take a stance on this crime fighting topic and tell us who have played twice in a ladle before. Kind of funny you haven't mentioned this before hand.

Until I see proof of a person playing the ladle twice in one day. I'm looking at them being signed up twice on the wiki as a communication mistake.