Aliases and the Ladle, Let's discuss and do something.

[compguygene]

Huge problem with aliases: you can sign up people that temporarily (or even permanently) don't exist. Maybe it's time that we finally do away with them...

Since the Ladle is supposed to be the premier tournament in this game, I see no valid reason why aliases are allowed. There are plenty of other tournaments that allow aliases. The only way that I can see this happening is for players to register in some way. You all understand all the problems and perils of this better than I do.

Discuss.

[Venijn]

Huge problem with aliases: you can sign up people that temporarily (or even permanently) don't exist. Maybe it's time that we finally do away with them...

Since the Ladle is supposed to be the premier tournament in this game, I see no valid reason why aliases are allowed. There are plenty of other tournaments that allow aliases. The only way that I can see this happening is for players to register in some way. You all understand all the problems and perils of this better than I do.

Discuss.

You forgot the "".

I think that being logged in publicly should be the rule, rather than aliases. If your login is hidden, you don't play. I change my name too often to like the aliases rule, the login one would make things easier.

I know however, that you could just create a new aliased account and get around it, so perhaps aliases should be outlawed (against my wishes.)

[0000]

Just ban aliases and trust that the community will follow the rule.

Make these small, easy changes:

1. Ladle signups done by GID.
2. Require players to use the same GID every ladle. Changes would be permitted if they were stated publicly in the relevant Ladle thread and the reason was adequate (like an authority going down).

Sure, the system could be cheated. So don't cheat it. I bet very few would.

[compguygene]

Zero, that sounds like a possibly workable plan. The wiki would track the old GID's. Not much extra stuff to do. I like it.

Just a couple other issues that I see.

1. We need to add a rule that the wiki must not be edited through the use of proxies.
2. No shariing GID's. Your GID can only be used by you in the Ladle.

One nice benefit of this would be for those that want to make a fun named aliased team. You could play as the name you desire, just so long as you are logged in with the proper GID. This should satisfy all parties in this debate. Now, I expect those of you that know the rules better than me to pick this apart and make it better.

[Overrated]

Would this prevent people like 3t who did in fact use aliases, but used the aliases the entire month before the ladle? They weren't secretive about it, they let everyone know who they were... Basically was just a theme tourney for them. I don't see an issue in that aspect.

[epsy]

If we're looking for a solution to certify that the player who was signed up is the same as the player who is playing, then Quadruple-Zero's solution is to be used. In order to be of any relevance, the GIDs must exist as they are recorded. If the wiki-based solution is to be used, as it has been since ladle exists, a wiki bot watching the changelist can do that job. A determined person however can "reserve" accounts as they register their team, and distribute the passwords once they know the actual team composition. Some people might say that nobody would bother that much, but I'd bet people said that previously when team leaders were asked to put up names on the challenge board.

As for my personal opinion, technically enforcing the rule that people on the challenge board are the people playing should come before inventing new rules on the subject. As for banning aliases altogether, I am against it. Other tournaments run fine without it, and while you can say it is more manageable in teams of two, banning those would effectively kill part of the colorfulness that a tournament event has to offer.

[Kijutsu]

Aliases should be allowed, but you should login with your real forum account.

Or, aliases and different forum accounts are allowed but editing the wiki under a proxy could potentially create a problem, so no proxies allowed.

[Gaz]

Jesus christ, why is everyone still going on about this stupid issue that happened almost two weeks ago... It's really not that big of a deal, so what they said they couldn't make it to play for their clans and went and played under an alias team. It's a game, get over it already... I think aliases should be allowed.. I see no reason why a team can't be a secret team... That team is doing nothing wrong..

The reason you all bitch and moan is because of the fact that some of the best players got together, formed a great team, and wooped the shit out of you all... Boohoo, as i said its a game...

Now I do understand it could've been handled diff like them telling their leaders what is going on... but they wanted nobody to know... we should all respect their decisions and move on... its sad that 2 weeks after it happened people are still going on about it.

[nux]

I just cant figure you guys out yet. If the problem with the wiki is that people can edit it behind a proxy, why not do something about that? I made a proposal few days ago about changing the wiki system for a custom made, nobody seemed to care.

Aliases should be allowed.

[Concord]

look, it's very simple.


the Ladle needs to be both open and positive. Occasionally, the openness will allow for bad elements to poison the event. The correct reaction is not to close down, whether this means changing the system or adding more rules, but to simply and appropriately discipline those responsible, and move on.

It easier to just add new rules than to pass judgment on fellow players, but it's better to take a good look at what happened, come to a conclusion of whether it was acceptable or not. If it was, no one should have any problem if the behavior is repeated. If it wasn't, those responsible need to be punished. It's silly to make rules banning some behavior and to fail to punish the instance of that behavior that caused the rule addition.

Forget about rules. Everyone needs to ask themselves if what each person did was wrong or right. Just ask yourself that and be honest with your answer. If you think they were in the wrong, be strong enough to say so. If you think they were right, be strong enough to say so. Come to a decision yourself, and be prepared to put action behind your words.

[0000]

This thread really isn't about Ladle 57 or team baylife.

Some people would simply prefer Ladle be played without aliases. This is a perfectly reasonable position to hold. In most major competitions, everyone knows everyone else's identity.

We are simply voicing our opinions. Most of my clan holds this position, and I am speaking for them as well. No need to get fiesty; if there isn't enough support, then that will be that.

[nux]

[quote="Concord"][/quote]

Actually, what you are saying would break the retroactivity concept, which means that nobody can be punished for something they did before there was a rule punishing such behavior. They can not be punished for something they did when it was legal at the time. This is even a part of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Another thing people seem to be forgetting, if there is no rule against it, its legal.

But, lets stay on topic, this is not about ladle 57.

[vov]

@Concord: Totally ridiculous post! LOL! Anyway, to respond seriously:
My opinion: nothing was done wrong, you're just (still!) mad for whatever reason. Probably because of what Gaz said; I can't agree more to him. If you do not like it, your "lynch mob" attitude is the wrong way to go about it imho. Look at it, it has just created about 100 posts of flamewar.


At the actual aliased teams issue:

As for my personal opinion, technically enforcing the rule that people on the challenge board are the people playing should come before inventing new rules on the subject. As for banning aliases altogether, I am against it. Other tournaments run fine without it, and while you can say it is more manageable in teams of two, banning those would effectively kill part of the colorfulness that a tournament event has to offer.

I totally agree. Look at the current WST lineup, there are more teams aliased than not. You technically do not know which player e.g "Bert Cooper" in Concord's very own team is. Is WST less fun because of this? No. It works. And it's fun. More fun than an all-serious no alias tournament without guessing who's who and stuff.
It's a game; so it's about a) having fun and/or b) winning it. Do aliased teams spoil one of these? a) I don't really see a reason why you could have less fun. b) an "aliased" player is not harder to beat than the same player "without" alias. In fact, every nickname is an alias. Aliases are OK. And so is changing them. Does WST differ from Ladle in any other aspect than game mode and date? (rhetorical question; no imho)

If it's about making sure that the ones who sign up are the ones who play;

1. Ladle signups done by GID.

would be enough in that case imo. It is as safe as it can be without overdoing it and limiting players' decisions (aka preventing secret teams).

[compguygene]

Nice to see the good discussion here. Let's summarize what I hope is the consensus.

1. All players must sign up using GID.
2. That GID will be the same one that has been used in prior Ladles. Perhaps if you want to use a new GID, you have to announce it on the forums before sign-ups close.
3. No sharing of GID's. The GID you use will be yours and yours alone.
4. No use proxies to edit the wiki. To be enforced with a Wiki bot.
5. Aliases are fine. Since you are identifying yourself by GID, you should feel free to use whatever username in-game you wish to.
6. Players not listed on the challenge board can sub in the day of the Ladle, provided that that login with a GID. The GID used should be one that they have used in prior Ladles to prevent a circumvention of the rules.
Please keep any discussion of punishment for Team Baylife and Ladle 57 in the appropriate threads. This thread is about preventing future problems.

I feel that these rule additions will not take away from any of the fun, but will preserve both fun and order. I hope that this will prevent future problems like this happening again.

I would also suggest that it be added to the ladle config file to force the use of GID's to play.

[Venijn]

Nice to see the good discussion here. Let's summarize what I hope is the consensus.

1. All players must sign up using GID.
2. That GID will be the same one that has been used in prior Ladles. Perhaps if you want to use a new GID, you have to announce it on the forums before sign-ups close.
3. No sharing of GID's. The GID you use will be yours and yours alone.
4. No use proxies to edit the wiki. To be enforced with a Wiki bot.
5. Aliases are fine. Since you are identifying yourself by GID, you should feel free to use whatever username in-game you wish to.
6. Players not listed on the challenge board can sub in the day of the Ladle, provided that that login with a GID. The GID used should be one that they have used in prior Ladles to prevent a circumvention of the rules.
Please keep any discussion of punishment for Team Baylife and Ladle 57 in the appropriate threads. This thread is about preventing future problems.

I feel that these rule additions will not take away from any of the fun, but will preserve both fun and order. I hope that this will prevent future problems like this happening again.

I would also suggest that it be added to the ladle config file to force the use of GID's to play.

I would add in that your authentication should not be hidden, which would confirm the registered GID.