Ladle 57

[Word]

scroll up to Word's post and take a look at LucK's post on the page before.

Until now, I haven't posted in this topic

(If you mean Venijn - I know who he is but I guess it's better to let him tell you that by himself)

[Tank Program]

page break! woo!

You won the Game! Congrats!

Yeah, but I have it on good authority that A) he knew the page break was coming beforehand, despite the implicit denial contained in his "EDIT" comment; and B) he improperly acquired the images for that gif from others.

A) I could have if I'd paid any attention to the paging. I was just too excited by the pretty colors. That's what led to...
B) The pretty colors! They led me to creating that magical mix! Sources: http://forums3.armagetronad.net/viewtop ... 90#p263767
http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/114777-n ... p-tart-cat Software used: Gimp Gnome 2 Gentoo Hardware used: HP dv7-6163us AOC e2795vh Logitech MX 518 Thermaltake Challenger. Alas, I do not know who made my USB hub, the wires, the table, chair, or house I was in. That should attribute pretty much everyone invovled though!

[Lackadaisical]

Some certain clans have been very vocal against using aliased names in the Ladle. I guess it's not an issue if some of their members partake in what they consider cheating.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who still remembers. SP seriously made us feel like shit for using aliases in ladle 35 (team binary) and all in the name of keeping the ladle 'honourable'. Not one of them speaking up about it now is nothing short of hypocrite.

[Word]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who still remembers. SP seriously made us feel like shit for using aliases in ladle 35 (team binary) and all in the name of keeping the ladle 'honourable'. Not one of them speaking up about it now is nothing short of hypocrite.

I guess some will also remember the ladle where they switched their two complete rosters and kept the team names, to ensure that their better team has an easier start while the other one was sacrificed. Another example for not really breaking the rules but poor sportsmanship that helped discord more than it helped to win.

[þsy]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who still remembers. SP seriously made us feel like shit for using aliases in ladle 35 (team binary) and all in the name of keeping the ladle 'honourable'. Not one of them speaking up about it now is nothing short of hypocrite.

I guess some will also remember the ladle where they switched their two complete rosters and kept the team names, to ensure that their better team has an easier start while the other one was sacrificed. Another example for not really breaking the rules but poor sportsmanship that helped discord more than it helped to win.

I've not wanted to get involved in this discussion, I don't see how my input (or that of SP's) could bear any fruitful insights, and what's done is done

Lack: I assume your referring to insa and fofo's involvement in Team Baylife as hypocritical, right?

Well, they were playing against SP (twice this ladle, actually..), so what are you suggesting? That members from SP should stick by that argument we made all those ladles all that time ago about aliases being stupid? Okay yeah sure, I still think they are, but us not bringing it up doesn't make us hypocrites haha...

Another more general point: If referring back to a past point made by a member of a clan/team, please don't lump it on a clan, but the players involved. Lacka's reference to a comment SP made back in ladle 35 assumes we're a static group of players with set ideas. Look at that ladle, 4 out of the 6 players who played aren't even in SP anymore! Indeed, since then, our roster has changed 70-80%

Further, as I alluded to, FoFo and Insa's input on this thread has been as members of Team Baylife, and not SP... So I'm confused as to why you're expecting them to speak up about about a past incident, under the identity of SP players, who may or may not have been involved in a discussion that was had after Ladle 35 haha

Word: What are we doing here.. digging up past incidents to soil the SP name as much as possible? In this particular instance, we are the victims. But we're not calling names or crying about it are we?? So why are you being so aggressive?

[Lackadaisical]

You're right psy, I should've made it clear that I wasn't talking about the SP team in this ladle but about those people who were there and are still here today haha

It's just frustrating to see that back then there was this major fuss about it and pretty much resulted (in combination with the ladle after) into a complete overhaul of the rules and guidelines while now everyone is just like 'oh just be cool about it'.

Personally I couldn't care less about aliases, but I just wish we could stay consistent in the way they are handled.

[Word]

Word: What are we doing here.. digging up past incidents to soil the SP name as much as possible? In this particular instance, we are the victims. But we're not calling names or crying about it are we?? So why are you being so aggressive?

My post's intent was far from being aggressive, I only recounted what happened there, because it's a similar example of doing harm to the tournament without directly breaking the rules (by which I implied something like "shouldn't we, as a community, have learned something out of that?'). Plus it's in the past (leave alone that SP did it arbitrarily at that time so the ones who possibly 'spoiled the SP name' were your predecessors, not the ones who bemoaned what they did). I know that your roster has changed since then.

[-*inS*-]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who still remembers. SP seriously made us feel like shit for using aliases in ladle 35 (team binary) and all in the name of keeping the ladle 'honourable'. Not one of them speaking up about it now is nothing short of hypocrite.

I guess some will also remember the ladle where they switched their two complete rosters and kept the team names, to ensure that their better team has an easier start while the other one was sacrificed. Another example for not really breaking the rules but poor sportsmanship that helped discord more than it helped to win.

Just fyi, you should really know the facts about something before you go babbling on about it. That wasn't the case at all and the fact you think so really undermines all credibility you have.

@Lacka if you're referring to either fofo or i, I was inactive during that period up until ladle 36 and I doubt FoFo had a strong opinion either way. I can understand your frustration. But you should note that not everyone is going to be sharing their sentiments on these boards. I wouldn't say that everyone is just being cool about it, the fact that this thread is 10 pages suggests otherwise anyways.

[þsy]

I agree Lack, but it's a difficult position for a lot of people in this instance, as a lot of the people who would post here are in either PL, SP, CT or UNK. I think people are more passive because it involves a member of their clan, and they don't want to make them feel targeted or unwelcome. And I certainly fit into that bracket, although I do like to avoid drama and conflict whenever I can

I personally feel like the matter is over, and let's hope it won't happen again

(I've got to agree with insa, please keep your thoughts to yourself Word)

[Venijn]

scroll up to Word's post and take a look at LucK's post on the page before.

Until now, I haven't posted in this topic

(If you mean Venijn - I know who he is but I guess it's better to let him tell you that by himself)

Most people know who I am, it's but a simple translation of my original name :p

Phytotron, I've a new found respect for your posts, quite entertaining, lol.

[Kijutsu]

Pretty sure everyone's allowed to voice their thoughts on here, psy. A mod will step in if it goes too far.

[Word]

Fine, I looked back at the past ladle results and here it is:
http://wiki.armagetronad.org/index.php/Ladle_36

Now I'll try to get all unimportant facts right, so you have no reason to question all my credibility.

1.) SPD had a difficult start but it was a lot easier when you put all the pros there
2.) Your B team should have won at least against our team (I'm saying this neutrally again - I would probably have complained too if we had lost).
3.) You could beat IB after your good team was in the server that was more comfortable for them.
Afterwards IB complained, related info here:

starts on this page: http://forums3.armagetronad.net/viewtop ... 3&start=60
http://forums3.armagetronad.net/viewtop ... 60&t=20467


(I also started a voting thread which tried to be neutral but it got locked over night when it was flooded with accusations from both sides.)

Bottom line: So how does that undermine my credibility? What SP did then (note past tense) still had an unfair intention behind it regardless how exactly you benefitted from it.

[þsy]

I didn't say they weren't liz, I wasn't suggesting he should be silenced or the forum equivalent, but was asking him to not dig up old ghosts quite unnecessarily

Unfortunately, he didn't listen haha. Oh well, I'm not gonna chase that one up, let's please leave it be. However:

Bottom line: So how does that undermine my credibility? What you did was still wrong and unfair regardless how exactly you benefitted from it.

I really hope you don't feel I ever suggested your credibility is/was undermined! And I agree, it was wrong and unfair. So, what exactly is the purpose of you bringing it up here and now?

(EDIT: For this particular example, I'd like to point out that despite being an active member of SP at the time; when I found out about what happened I was quite vocal on this forum about how disgusted I was by what had happened. Another example of how player + clan become conflated, and now here I am put in a position to 'defend' the actions of a group I disagreed with but now represent. Bummer!)

[Word]

I really hope you don't feel I ever suggested your credibility is/was undermined!

You didn't, insanity did:

Just fyi, you should really know the facts about something before you go babbling on about it. That wasn't the case at all and the fact you think so really undermines all credibility you have.

So, what exactly is the purpose of you bringing it up here and now?

My reason for posting was just this:

...because it's a similar example of doing harm to the tournament without directly breaking the rules (by which I implied something like "shouldn't we, as a community, have learned something out of that?')

As insa pointed out the exact reasoning of SP was unimportant to me, but their consideration didn't make SPs intention look any better and thus didn't change what I've tried to say with that, did it?

[sinewav]

One thing is for sure, it looks like all the members of TeamBaylife aren't as "cool" as we all once thought. That's a bummer.

Working the rulebook to get what you want always ends up in more rules, and more rules = less fun. Abusing the freedom of aliasing puts us on the track of adopting a separate Fortress authority (we've talked about @ladle before) and that comes with a whole mess of problems -- and much more work for volunteers.

I don't think 10 pages on this topic is enough. I think the point needs to be driven home: No, this is NOT acceptable behavior. There are still a lot of people justifying it.