The Werewolf Game 5 - Worms win!

[INW]

I think that Word's story about someone being able to back up that he isn't a werewolf very fishy

http://forums3.armagetronad.net/viewtop ... s&start=45

If you look at the last one, word was extremely involved in the game and ended up being a normal worm. o.o

So is it word acting like he was last time or is it him fitting the part?

Either way I would give word a high chance of being a normal program.

Everyone vote AI, it is obvious!

[LucK]

How do we know that you and word aren't worms working together?

[Eckz]

I'm going to vote no one. Too many strange characters already.

[Overrated]

I'm finding it suspicious how INW is continuously pushing on AI for really no apparent reason. Why would a worm do something so idiotic like that? It sounds more like a ploy of a normal program if you ask me.

Eckz, why would you vote AI like that unless you were trying to get rid of him? Sure he may have voted immediately to get someone off, but there's nothing wrong with that. It's trying to get the reactions out of them and play them off. Instead, both you and INW voted him when we all know killing off a random from day one is a bad idea, as it gives the worms an advantage.

I also find it odd how AI is voting me with no real reason (I don't even think he's a worm). And his reasoning for voting me was extremely idiotic when I was trying to out my observations.

Anyway, I'm trying to out people I see as suspicious, and so far the only person who seems to confirm my suspicions is INW.

I believe both Word and AI are uninfected programs. Word pushing on him for no apparent reason is sort of fishy, though.

I still believe Eckz and Titanoboa can be worms, but I feel like INW is, for fact, a worm.

[Word]

to all who think that was fishy: you'll see that I'm helpful when I've found the first worm. I do know the firewall because I scanned that player first. I don't know what AI is. He's just going insane at the moment and I would vote for killing nobody if he'd stop throwing around accusations that have no basis. I'm not interested in knowing what AI is because he's harmful to everyone.

@Overrated: no, I'm not working together with AI. I don't like that he could already try to kill someone who could possibly save my life (he didn't yet, but sooner or later he probably could).* He is asking for it. I'm admitting that there is no other reason.

*but remember I'm trying my best to protect the firewall by all means, so maybe he already accused him (as that sentence indicated, maybe he didn't yet)

And better don't jump to wrong conclusions because someone defended me (e.g. INW, Overrated). Maybe they just used reason, as opposed to AI. It doesn't say anything about their role - maybe they are worms, and I won't return the favor and defend them because I have no clue what they are. I don't know their motives for defending me. Thanks anyway

If you look at the last one, word was extremely involved in the game and ended up being a normal worm.

normal program you mean

[Overrated]

I think the worst thing you could have done is outed that you know who the firewall is, Word, as well as yourself being the scanner. If the even worms know how to play this, they can completely screw us up if they're doing what I think you may be doing. But anyway...

Not only does it now eliminate AI from being the firewall, but it now makes the odds better for the worms to find the firewall if AI is in fact a normal program (as I believe). If you push on ANYONE else, they'll know they're not the firewall. I suggest you lay low now and let the rest of the programs decide, at least for this day phase and use the safety of this night phase to your advantage for tomorrow. You've put us uninfected in a bad spot if you chose AI who might end up being a worm, might not. Either way, I think we have to take out AI just so we don't put ourselves in potentially WORSE odds...

MY vote is staying on INW for the moment though...

Edit: Question: does this mean that the scanner finds the player's role? Since Word claims he found the firewall. I don't think that's fair since this is less about scum hunting and more about investigating the right person. Not much skill to it, more of a luck factor.

[Word]

it doesn't matter what you know about me because I'm likely to get protected. Everything is fine as long as nobody kills the firewall.

I don't think that's fair since this is less about scum hunting and more about investigating the right person. Not much skill to it, more of a luck factor.

It was never different...and it's fair because you can still be good at finding arguments to protect yourself. In AI's case, the accusations backfired because they were devoid of any logic. Of course there's a luck factor, but it's even more evident if you know nothing. Perhaps we'll get to know a worm soon - it's already difficult for a crowd not to self-destruct before that. 'investigating" isn't luck, 'guessing is'. My guess is AI.

Of course everyone could claim that - it would actually improve the worms' chances if they had a pawn sacrifice or distraction like me, and I'm aware of the contradictions and the risk I invite by these assertions. You always have the choice not to trust me.

[Overrated]

I don't think that's fair since this is less about scum hunting and more about investigating the right person. Not much skill to it, more of a luck factor.

It was never different...and it's fair because you can still be good at finding arguments to protect yourself. In AI's case, the accusations backfired because they were devoid of any logic.

How does the worm get any logical, or legitimate play in this? If the role was not revealed, and just infected/uninfected, then it at least allows the worm a chance to claim your role to bring upon confusion. With this setup, the worm has no choice but to try and play logically and hope that the scanner investigates the wrong person on one given night. Fair? I think not. Especially in a case where the scanner supposedly found the firewall.

Also, since there's no counter claiming going on, it allows the scanner to essentially out themselves day two and be free and safe from any harm if the firewall was not terminated on night one.

If you actually look at this, it's a complete luck factor. Yes, it would be partially luck if the roles were not revealed, but at least it would give more viable plays and more about looking for scum tells and reads on other players. The current setup has limited plays for worms, the roles not being revealed setup is more about looking for those scum tells and reads on players.

[Word]

Also, since there's no counter claiming going on, it allows the scanner to essentially out themselves day two and be free and safe from any harm if the firewall was not terminated on night one.

You just answered your own question (and I did in the 2nd part of my previous post).

The worms can claim the same. They apparently didn't (yet) and that's their problem. Nobody has to believe me. Maybe the worms happen to kill someone I was going to scan so that info would be useless, or they manage to kill half the uninfected programes besides the firewall and me and we accidentally kill the other half (possibly starting with AI). The uninfected programs without special roles are the worms' biggest helpers. The firewall (and mind you, you can't be sure whether it exists because I haven't posted the PM and the real firewall would be quiet either way, just to protect itself) and I are a minority and completely depend on the uninfected programs' affection. We are two players. The worms are four. If one is good at this game you can't really to which group he belongs, regardless what role he has.

Plus, remember that we have four worms - maybe they will happen to kill the firewall next, and then me (just like I was lucky to find the firewall before they did). This means I can scan at least one more player.

[Overrated]

Also, since there's no counter claiming going on, it allows the scanner to essentially out themselves day two and be free and safe from any harm if the firewall was not terminated on night one.

You just answered your own question (and I did in the 2nd part of my previous post).

The worms can claim the same. They apparently didn't (yet) and that's their problem.

/me shakes head.

A worm can and should not claim in this situation because they'd have to whisper a person and tell them their role. If they whisper the firewall (whom you apparently know) and call them a normal program, then they'd instantly lose. A worm is at a serious disadvantage with this setup, when the scanner can find out whether or not a player is a power program. If the roles are not revealed, the person you whisper as an "uninfected" has to consider whether this person is lying to them or not before making a full claim. Thus adding more strategy to the game, and more decision making processes.

Again though, a worm COULD counterclaim you, or you could be a worm claiming you know who the firewall is, or you could be the firewall protecting the scanner. The big difference to me is that you probably won't get counterclaimed because if a person were to do it now they'd probably be the first to get terminated to test your claim. How would anyone be able to play off of that situation? Especially if you've already whispered the firewall, and if the firewall hasn't been whispered by you then the firewall should soon out themselves as to find a confirmed worm and keep the real scanner from outing.

This setup offers LESS of an opportunity for strategy if roles are revealed. When roles aren't revealed, you have to make a decision whether to trust a player or not who comes to you saying they're the scanner

Edit:

Plus, remember that we have four worms - maybe they will happen to kill the firewall next, and then me (just like I was lucky to find the firewall before they did). This means I can scan at least one more player.

Then why did you out now? All it does is make it so the even worms more than likely won't choose you. How does that help protect you? IT could be the even worms were going to choose you, but now that you outed yourself you leave it for more chance of hitting the firewall. It's a bad play to out now, because instead of possibly losing no one on the chance the even worms targeted you, we have to hope they miss on the firewall.

[Word]

A worm can and should not claim in this situation because they'd have to whisper a person and tell them their role

There's one major flaw though, to this point I just know ONE player, the worms already have a partner from the start and can easily get an alibi because of that (and yes, I'd tell you exactly the same if I was an actual worm). They can just PM someone that they're the real scanner and firewall and that they know you're innocent, and everything I said will look more and more suspicious if I don't find a worm and we don't kill him as a group.

The big difference to me is that you probably won't get counterclaimed because if a person were to do it now they'd probably be the first to get terminated to test your claim.

nobody will stand up and defend me because that would be his own death, either because

1) we both are worms and want the actual firewall/scanner to out so we can kill it.
2)I'm the scanner and know the firewall. If he dies I will be the next target.

ll it does is make it so the even worms more than likely won't choose you. How does that help protect you?

3) Or maybe I'm the firewall and just making fun of you (although I know the scanner) so I survive as well. If everyone thinks I am protected, why attack me?

[Overrated]

A worm can and should not claim in this situation because they'd have to whisper a person and tell them their role

There's one major flaw though, to this point I just know ONE player, the worms already have a partner from the start and can easily get an alibi because of that (and yes, I'd tell you exactly the same if I was an actual worm). They can just PM someone that they're the real scanner and firewall and that they know you're innocent, and everything I said will look more and more suspicious if I don't find a worm and we don't kill him as a group.

Okay, and why would one want to keep themselves with their worm partner? If anything, they'd probably target one another so as to avoid being close to each other (less suspicion). Besides, based on your first post, and the amount of reactions after it, most of us can conclude that you are either the firewall or scanner (I said this before).

The big difference to me is that you probably won't get counterclaimed because if a person were to do it now they'd probably be the first to get terminated to test your claim.

nobody will stand up and defend me because that would be his own death, either because

1) we both are worms and want the actual firewall/scanner to out so we can kill it.
2)I'm the scanner and know the firewall. If he dies I will be the next target.

Pointed this out. If you're not real scanner/firewall you would have been counterclaimed by now (imho).

If you're a worm, you're only outing one person, and as I said before, if you were a worm, the real firewall would out, not the scanner. Scanner = more important than firewall.

ll it does is make it so the even worms more than likely won't choose you. How does that help protect you?

3) Or maybe I'm the firewall and just making fun of you (although I know the scanner) so I survive as well. If everyone thinks I am protected, why attack me?

I am quite sure I covered this in one of my previous posts. The move I think is best for the even worms would be to target you if you're going to be terminating a program today. They would have nothing to lose and all that is lost is a firewall that's not insanely important in this aspect because scanner would still be safe in a worst case scenario. Most people would NOT target you, however, fearing that you are indeed the scanner. It's a risk/reward thing, and the only thing we have to take is your word.

Less strategy, less precaution, imho.

[INW]

I'm finding it suspicious how INW is continuously pushing on AI for really no apparent reason. Why would a worm do something so idiotic like that? It sounds more like a ploy of a normal program if you ask me.

The apparent reason is AI shootin the gun right off the bat on potter.

And I was a worm last time, I was the last one to live, I know how to play it. I worm would stay cool and simply vote in PM to elmo on the nights to get rid of someone.

And ya word, I meant a normal program. Your name is too close to the word "worm".

The ignorance is killing me.

[Overrated]

I'm finding it suspicious how INW is continuously pushing on AI for really no apparent reason. Why would a worm do something so idiotic like that? It sounds more like a ploy of a normal program if you ask me.

The apparent reason is AI shootin the gun right off the bat on potter.

Yes, but why would you hop on to it when it's literally no basis? There are many reasons he could have done that, and only a few result in him being a worm. You said it yourself, you know how to play, so why jump on to someone when you know very well it could be a ploy to see who will jump on something immediately.

Or maybe it was a joke, which you took the wrong way. Either way, voting for him served no purpose other than adding suspicion to yourself (according to me and possibly Titanoboa? (not sure about his post and if it still stands)).

What if everyone bandwagoned on to the AI lynch and he was the scanner? Then you all would seem stupid. He's not a power role though, as we know from the kill program dying night one and supposedly Word knowing the both power roles.

I just don't understand how you could logically vote him for something like that on day one on a day start (no evidence for anything). Obviously it had no basis and there were no intentions to actually vote potter out that day.

[Word]

If anything, they'd probably target one another so as to avoid being close to each other (less suspicion).

...which is what AI and potter did. I see a strategy there.

most of us can conclude that you are either the firewall or scanner

you can, but you don't have to. I left out 4) making people think 2) or 3) would be right so they doubt it's 1) or vice versa. all I need for that is someone who writes that it sounds credible to him (regardless if it's staged).