Homosexuality is a Choice(Not!)

[Cody]

Oh boy do I see this more and more every day.

I actually just ran into someone on the grid, that wanted to debate against homosexuality without bringing religion into it.
I'm like sure.

Well it went on for about 25mins and religion finally peaked it head in there. Also the guy claimed that a sexual orientation is a choice for both heterosexual or homosexual and that human nature(oh and god) made it for men to be attracted to women and women to be attracted to men, nothing else, its impossible(according to him) for a male to be naturally attracted to a male & a female to be naturally attracted to a female. I just curious on how many other people here share this same thought?

Keep it clean

A clip from the movie "for the bible tells me so" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYMjXucTFaM
A youtube video on a equality poem http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... bVlVzGI9y0
Gay rights movement video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u62OtM_vt5k

[Slov]

I think it's lame to argue about it, anyone that has a problem with it and bothers other people (especially on internet) needs to get a life

[Cody]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... bVlVzGI9y0

another awesome video <3

[Lucifer]

It's only a choice when you're bi.

[syllabear]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_an ... rientation

While its possible environmental factors have something to do with it (note for example, this may include the "birth order" hypothesis, so while environmental, it is not a choice), at the end of the day we don't know for sure, and the evidence to date does show at least some correlation towards a genetic link.

[Word]

most homosexuals I know have parents which make me think I would have become homosexual too if I would have had these parents...in that sense, I agree that it isn't a choice. I think that sexual orientation slowly develops as you grow up, not that you're literally born with it, it's dependent on the circumstances you're born in. Maybe there are some specific genes or testosterone-related similarities that are shared by all heteros or all homos, but these things can change and mutate over time.

[syllabear]

but these things can change and mutate over time.

You cannot "mutate" from a heterosexual to a homosexual (or vice-versa). Individual cells can mutate (cancer) but a personality, or any generalised condition of a person cannot change through this process (since mutation occurs on a cellular level, and that kind of change would require a macroscopic alteration)

[Word]

that's not exactly what I meant, I was just trying to explain that your environment and the people who surround you can affect the development of your personality as well as that of your genes and since your perception of these factors can change rapidly as you grow up, they play a role in the development of your sexual orientation. I didn't say genes mutate and change the personality, I think it's the other way round.

[sinewav]

Massive eyeroll time.

This reminds me of a conversation I had with my friend's wife. During the evening, her mother said something asinine like "she turned one of her boyfriend's gay" because he started dating men years after their relationship ended. I reminded them both you can't "turn someone gay" no matter how hard you try. What followed was this (Name changed to protect privacy).

Ruby: Being gay is a choice.
Me: So, you are attracted to women, but you choose not to sleep with them?
Ruby: No, I think some girls are attractive, but not in a sexual way.
Me: Did you choose to be sexually attracted to men but not women?
Ruby: No, I just am.
Me: Exactly.
Ruby: But being gay is still a choice, you shouldn't act on it.
Me: It doesn't affect you. You shouldn't try to prevent someone from experiencing the same love you have with your husband. That's just rude. I thought you learned the golden rule?

It's a lost cause with most people. They lack the cognitive facilities and the desire to be introspective and skeptical of their beliefs. It's not their fault. Just like gay people don't choose to be gay, those who can't see sexuality as inherent don't choose to be idiots.

[INW]

Being gay isn't a choice but living the gay lifestyle is.

Someone said that on these forums before I think.

[Kijutsu]

Yeah, this topic wouldn't be complete without one of Word's moronic posts..

(..and a condescending one by me.)

[sinewav]

Being gay isn't a choice but living the gay lifestyle is.

There is noting wrong with living a "gay lifestyle," whatever that means. If you don't like it, don't do it. Seems to me that one of the stereotypes of the gay lifestyle is a fixation on being healthy and attractive. I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't want to be healthy and attractive. Maybe the non-gays are the real problem?

[INW]

It's all about that jealousy I guess.

[Word]

Yeah, this topic wouldn't be complete without one of Word's moronic posts..

OK, why is my post moronic this time? I take it you'd disagree that parents influence their children's character. There are probably hundreds of surveys which cover how that's connected to sexual orientation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmen ... rientation

I think that "one can be born gay"/"being gay is a choice" are both inaccurate descriptions because it's a slow process which depends on endless other factors apart from your genes (same for heterosexuality). The "truth" is something inbetween.

[wap]

This is the nature versus nurture debate, right?

Recently I read something about this subject for school, it was about if sexual orientation was determined at birth or not. From what I remember there was more scientific evidence for the nature side of this debate. Two examples of this are an experiment with twins and a constant percentage of gay people in any place of the world.

The twin experiment was basically an analysis of twins who had lived together since their birth and twins who were seperated - and therefore raised in different families and circumstances - since their birth. Researchers found enough evidence to suggest that there's a biological connection to homosexuality, both among the twins together and the seperated twins. When one of the identical twins was gay, there was a big chance the other twin was also gay, despite being raised in different families and circumstances.

The second thing basically suggests that despite all the different cultures and traditions in the world, the percentage of gay people is the same everywhere. In other words, different cultures, traditions, habits, etc don't seem to influence this percentage.

On the other hand the nurture side of this debate doesn't seem to have as much evidence. Those who advocate for this side of the debate mention things like estranged relationships between gay children and their parents and sexual abuse at young ace as factors that could stimulate becoming/being gay.

It's probably a combination of the two, but biological factors seem to play a much bigger part in this than environmental factors.