Single Player, U-Turn Response Time Issue

For all the help you need with Armagetron!
Post Reply
User avatar
windswept
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 11:45 pm

Single Player, U-Turn Response Time Issue

Post by windswept »

Hi! New user to the forums, played Armagetron years ago and decided to install Advanced.

If making a u turn I'm noticing that no matter how fast I doubletap the direction needed, there's a 'minimum distance' the cycle will go and it won't let me turn any tighter. The first and normal controls are perfectly responsive with no lag, but it's that second tap in a quick succession that it has to make a cycle's length of trail before turning again. Minimum uturn size is the same each time, which leads me to think there's possibly some setting I don't know about to fix this. To putz around with the issue I've brought down the game speed to -2 to make sure I'm not just slow these days, I've changed CYCLE_DELAY with no apparent change, and I've tested my keyboard in other games and no games, and the delay issue is only here. Tried to do a forum search but I don't think I've found anything so, new topic made. Help?
Last edited by windswept on Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Z-Man
God & Project Admin
Posts: 11736
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: Cologne
Contact:

Re: Single Player, U-Turn Response Time Isse

Post by Z-Man »

windswept wrote:CYCLE_DELAY
It's indeed this settings that determines how tight U-Turns can be. There are two possible causes for it not working: 1. You are not setting it properly 2. you are trying to set it locally on your client while in a network game. You found the right setting, so 1. is unlikely. You also modified the game speed, which can only be done locally, so it can't be 2. So I'm stumped. What, precisely, are you doing?

(Wild guess if I have to take one: you are using the chat interface to set CYCLE_DELAY. You need to use the extra console input menu that you can activate by pressing the key below ESC.)
User avatar
windswept
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 11:45 pm

Re: Single Player, U-Turn Response Time Isse

Post by windswept »

Sweet, good to know I'm halfway there with the right command at least.

Single player no networking for all of this, by the by.

I wasn't sure if I would have to console command each time I opened the program so I went into the game config folder. The settings cfg appears to be default set to '.1'. I made a new autoexec.cfg in the same folder as it instructed, and just put in the cycle delay line. Tried setting it to 0.1, or 0.001, no difference ingame. I must be doing it wrong.
User avatar
INW
Reverse Outside Corner Grinder
Posts: 1950
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:10 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA

Re: Single Player, U-Turn Response Time Isse

Post by INW »

If you want a tight u-turn (180) set this:

Code: Select all

CYCLE_DELAY .01
That will make the turns tight.

If you can't get the turns tight, try looking at this.
User avatar
windswept
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 11:45 pm

Re: Single Player, U-Turn Response Time Isse

Post by windswept »

Tried setting cycle_delay in autoexec, in the actual settings file, in the chat console menu. Setting it UP sure changed it so I know it's listening to me at least, but setting it at .01 or .1 or .001 doesn't make a lick of difference. Double binding does a perfect 180 as it should, and making a Z with a quick left-right is able to bring in the same tight response I'm looking for. So.... I'm completely baffled as to what's wrong.

I would double bind, but that doesn't incite the same instinctual hairpin turns I used to be able to play, if that makes sense. :cry:

(and if it makes any difference in the world, on a new W7 box)
User avatar
Jonathan
A Brave Victim
Posts: 3391
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:50 am
Location: Not really lurking anymore

Re: Single Player, U-Turn Response Time Issue

Post by Jonathan »

Maybe your fingers aren't as fast as you thought they are now? You need some really fast fingers to do much better than 0.1. I could do 1/15. That, or you have a cheap keyboard.
ˌɑrməˈɡɛˌtrɑn
User avatar
windswept
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 11:45 pm

Re: Single Player, U-Turn Response Time Issue

Post by windswept »

Keyboard was $120ish and is wired so I hope it's not the keyboard. While there's a possibility it could be me since I simply don't have anything to measure; I'm able to do the left-right in the proper hairpin fashion and the same key is ten times the distance before the U completes and the same distance each time against the floor grid (and well, I type for a living). I can also doubletap the key and while I see the first strike is in sync, the second one visibly delays after my strike.
User avatar
Z-Man
God & Project Admin
Posts: 11736
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: Cologne
Contact:

Re: Single Player, U-Turn Response Time Issue

Post by Z-Man »

If doublebind U-Turns work as expected, the problem must be something that happens before the game receives input. Mostly what Jonathan lists: you're not as fast as you think you are, the keyboard is adding the delay, the operating system is adding the delay. We certainly have no line of code that makes single bind turns slower than doublebind turns artificially.
Word
Reverse Adjust Outside Corner Grinder
Posts: 4327
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:13 pm

Re: Single Player, U-Turn Response Time Issue

Post by Word »

I can also doubletap the key and while I see the first strike is in sync, the second one visibly delays after my strike.
try to use 2 keys for the same direction, press them (nearly) at the same time. that's what we call 'doublebinding' (edit: oh, INW posted that already). If it still doesn't work, check the doublebind_time command (it could be that you have changed it without knowing what it does).
User avatar
windswept
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 11:45 pm

Re: Single Player, U-Turn Response Time Issue

Post by windswept »

Didn't mess with anything other than cycle_delay so it's still at install defaults.

This has turned into a bit of a puzzle for me, so my progress: Got a keyboard hardware test and my keyboard clocks 85-110ms which is standard response time. Mapped the mouse to left and right and got the same delay. At the suggestion of a friend I downloaded autoclicker so I can remove myself from the equation, and the delay is still present and the same distance.

So not the game, not me, and as far as I can tell not my hardware. Gonna try launching the game in safe mode and XP mode after work to see if that changes this behavior.
User avatar
Jonathan
A Brave Victim
Posts: 3391
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:50 am
Location: Not really lurking anymore

Re: Single Player, U-Turn Response Time Issue

Post by Jonathan »

Here's an idea: set up adjacent double binds. Then see if the speed of that is what you expect (i.e. not artificially slow, capable of really tight turns at low CYCLE_DELAY). If so, try to hit the keys in quick succession with the same finger. Double-tap across keys. It's probably slightly slower, but not out of the ballpark. You can use that to check a few things. Also, videotape yourself. It's surprising how easy it is to think something else than you are really doing entirely.
ˌɑrməˈɡɛˌtrɑn
User avatar
windswept
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 11:45 pm

Re: Single Player, U-Turn Response Time Issue

Post by windswept »

The fact that I don't have the ability to videotape myself aside, the autoclicker removes it being me. If the computer is making an instantaneous doubleclick without human input and the delay still occurs, it's not the human.

Doubletapped across keys like you suggested, was able to pull off tighter and a 180 pretty easily.
User avatar
Jonathan
A Brave Victim
Posts: 3391
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:50 am
Location: Not really lurking anymore

Re: Single Player, U-Turn Response Time Issue

Post by Jonathan »

Well, autoclickers still have some delay. Not much, but I wouldn't rely on it to draw a conclusion.

Not sure what to say of this though.
ˌɑrməˈɡɛˌtrɑn
User avatar
Z-Man
God & Project Admin
Posts: 11736
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: Cologne
Contact:

Re: Single Player, U-Turn Response Time Issue

Post by Z-Man »

Hmm, to properly rule out the game as the issue, you could make a debug recording. There's a 'record' start menu entry. If you play the game with that, there *should* appear a new desktop file called ArmagetronAdvancedDebugRecording.aarec (or similar). So start the game that way, do some U-Turns, quit, zip the file up and attach it here. We'll be able to look exactly at what the game receives as input with what timing and how it gets processed by the game.
Post Reply