The inside scoop to magglass1's hack - May 7, 2010

[Phytotron]

Yes, I understand it's different from Obsi's. I read Apparition's pasted conversation before he deleted it.* The difference in its mechanics changes nothing regarding its legitimacy.

That defense was absolutely laughable. And isn't it just straight out of the steroid era. "I still have to keep my eye on the ball! ... I still have to make my reads and use technique! ... I still have to use the correct stroke! ... I still have to pedal and steer!"

And then that inane, "gee, if people only knew how much skill and effort went into corrupting, sidestepping, and pissing on the game, they would realize those skills are on equal technical and ethical footing with actually playing, and nothing's wrong with it. It's just another way to play the game!" Not to mention these declarations of 'logical' principles: "Some people don't object, so it's OK" and "I made it and my own rules, therefore I can acceptably use it where and however I want."

Har.

No, a cheat is a cheat, no matter how technically, creatively or ingeniously you believe you've gone about it. That is not a reasonable or moral justification.

You're obviously quite pleased with yourself, and I'm sure you, like Obsi, have a handful of dumb, amoral kids who admire you for it, collectively validating your respective postmodernistic, nihilistic, narcissistic, Machiavellian values. But this kind of shit, and your attempts at rationalising and justifying it, will not fly. An athlete wouldn't get away with it; a burglar wouldn't get away with it; a student wouldn't get away with it. (A politician, CEO, accountant, stockbroker, or banker shouldn't get away with it.) You guys are just proud punks, period.

And to you specifically, Obsi, your actions in this game have been no less abusive than your ongoing charges of, and demonstrations against, supposed "admin abuse of power." So, you're additionally a hypocrite. For that matter, actually, I reckon magglass is as well, being a "skillful DF pro." You presumably demand others play by that particular honor code of gameplay, but see nothing wrong with using a hacked client to undermine the most basic of fair sportsmanship across all game modes/types. Please.


A couple other analogies illustrating the absurdity of your defense:

Auto-tune. "But I still use a mic and have to mouth the words and use my voice! I'm as good as any real singer! I am a real singer!"
Guitar Hero. "But I still use a guitar-shaped device and have to keep the rhythm and use my fingers! I am a real guitarist!"

Right.


That's my take, and why I won't permit it in my servers. That said, a server dedicated to hacked clients and whatnot might be interesting and/or amusing. My only reservation would be that it could encourage more of this, which would, of course, be used in other servers. If this kind of stuff were to become commonplace, rather than just a few jokers, then where will we be?



* Side Note: Appa, I did indeed initially think your pasted conversation was a "sting operation"—that you objected to his hack but wanted evidence of what it was and his attitude regarding it. At the same time, you didn't provide any preface or caption to it; you just stuck it up there leaving people to interpret it as they might (even if it hadn't been merged with platnicat's grievance). What do you expect? I think your indignation was a bit overwrought. Nel, too. So, I too think you should re-post it with a clear disclaimer on what is your position on the subject of the conversation.

[sinewav]

...you didn't provide any preface or caption to it; you just stuck it up there leaving people to interpret it as they might...

Well worded Phytotron. This is exactly how I read it.

[Word]

i don't know magglass1's intention but before i write my opinion i want to describe what it is, and what it is not.
we played some rounds in our fortress server, and it didn't give him a real advantage most of the time. in fact, he died a lot of times when it was turned on; someone without such a hack wouldn't have died in these situations (for example, during a usual neck and neck race he just turned back suddenly, then crashed in my wall without any particular reason).
his defense seems frightening and invincible at first (because he always stays inside and follows his tail while he shrinks very slowly), but the slightest lag spike causes him to crash or at least to turn in the worst possible direction so that I can enter and kill him. the same applies for his attack, but it's a bit more effective since he's outside and doesn't have to fear his own wall. as soon as you box him in while he is following you, he is lost. his hack or whatever it is doesn't estimate its opponent's rubber - he's simply unable to grind properly. it's true that he's able to cling on your tail like a limpet, but that's all.
There are already enough people who think they know how to cheat because they have macros, but none of these methods is perfect. the challenge to play against someone who uses a hack like magglass1 isn't that big; it's just fun to watch. if you want to kill him there's nothing that prevents you (unlike some GTA-like hacks which allow your car to fly, or make a jetpack appear on your back, it doesn't give him any additional power an average player isn't able to parry). he's confused enough when you just turn back a few times, and his hack allows/forces him to follow you EVERYWHERE.
When i asked him to play he was getting kicked in a df server, for scaring some playing-open idiots

[Cody <3]

At the end of the day, Skill will trump your little "hack"

[Van-hayes]

I don't really see why there is a huge debate over this, he uses a modified client that allows him to do something that unmodified clients can't. That's cheating. There is no global rule that says you can't do this but if server admins/mods want to kick/ban him for it that is completely justified, as is players vote kicking him.

[platnicat]

...

I COULD NOT AGREE MORE. This is exactly what I mean.

[AI-team]

At the end of the day, Skill will trump your little "hack"

++

[magglass1]

There is no global rule that says you can't do this but if server admins/mods want to kick/ban him for it that is completely justified, as is players vote kicking him.

It's usually only one person that wants to kick me and the rest don't care, so you have one person whining about it and trying to poll me, though all the polls get rejected.

[Yoda]

I don't see why you need to hack. It just seems like it would take all the joy out of actually playing the game.

[magglass1]

I don't see why you need to hack. It just seems like it would take all the joy out of actually playing the game.

I think Stallman said it best when he said, "Playfully doing something difficult, whether useful or not, that is hacking." I mostly hack for the challenge.

[teen]

why dont you just take his hack as a challenge. Its more beneficial for us to play against him then him to play against us.

* play local games


@magglass1: How smart are your bots in local game?? any difference? can you somehow create a script for bots to stay inside a zone for as long as possible?

[Titanoboa]

Yeah I challenge you, magglass1, to make a smart sumo bot (that can be used as an AI later). gl hf

[Jonathan]

Well, as far as I understand it assists with outer grinds. That's not exactly AI. The same way an aimbot won't do much if you leave it alone.

[epsy]

Can we all stop repeating ourselves 3 times in a row?

[magglass1]

@magglass1: How smart are your bots in local game?? any difference? can you somehow create a script for bots to stay inside a zone for as long as possible?

They're just as smart as yours I guess. I haven't modified them in any way. I'm sure there's a way to make the bots better at fort (seems that that's what you're getting at), but I don't have the time to work on that right now.