You want new features?

General Stuff about Armagetron, That doesn't belong anywhere else...
User avatar
Lucifer
Project Developer
Posts: 8751
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 3:32 pm
Location: Republic of Texas

Re: You want new features?

Post by Lucifer »

apparition wrote:Am I the only one who finds it weird that there has been no reply to my last comment? This is a pretty meaningful topic isn't it?
Maybe we're tired of replying to comments that accuse us of being stuck-up for not explicitly supporting every project someone comes along with? Maybe we're tired of telling people to do what they want, they don't need us to buy in to it, you're expected to contribute whatever you want to contribute to this community, nothing more and nothing less. It's not our responsibility when you decide to withdraw your commitment. That's a decision you make.

I, for one, am really sick of being told I don't care enough about what other people do. Why do you need me to care?
Check out my YouTube channel: https://youtube.com/@davefancella?si=H--oCK3k_dQ1laDN

Be the devil's own, Lucifer's my name.
- Iron Maiden
Luke-Jr
Dr Z Level
Posts: 2246
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 4:03 pm
Location: IM: luke@dashjr.org

Re: You want new features?

Post by Luke-Jr »

apparition wrote:Am I the only one who finds it weird that there has been no reply to my last comment? This is a pretty meaningful topic isn't it?
No. If people don't want to pay for something, you can't make them.
User avatar
apparition
Match Winner
Posts: 630
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:59 am
Location: The Mitten, USA

Re: You want new features?

Post by apparition »

Maybe we're tired of coming up with projects that require your attention that end up failing because you don't give a shit? Clearly you're The Man in this situation. Maybe you don't realize that I'm not trying to mess your system up, just honestly help out and ask what I think are meaningful questions?

I'm trying to develop an interesting and viable way to help support the community. New initiatives and projects that don't have your guys' support inevitably die fairly quickly around here. Why do I need you to care? Because there are some awesome opportunities that we're all missing out on because you guys (the ones with the power, The Man) choose not to care. I'm making the decision to care, ask questions, and make what I think are meaningful statements that many have chosen to ignore. If the shit I'm talking about isn't meaningful to you, then by all means ignore it. But you might want to realize that when you ignore something meaningful it seems ignorant, which can be considered stuck-up. Not my problem. How I feel doesn't really change how you're going to react or what you're going to do/not do, those are conscious decisions you make.

I, for one, am really sick of getting dumped on for trying to provoke some positive action/reaction from you guys about new Armagetron ideas and initiatives.

Oh well, glad you at least responded. Good luck with whatever you guys have going on.
User avatar
Z-Man
God & Project Admin
Posts: 11717
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: Cologne
Contact:

Re: You want new features?

Post by Z-Man »

What's the hubhub about? The marketplace thread seems to be going well without our intervention. I don't quite understand what kind of support this would need from us.
User avatar
noob_saibot
Round Winner
Posts: 237
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:39 am

Re: You want new features?

Post by noob_saibot »

apparition wrote:Open a section where Liz could pimp out some video making/Youtube services!
LOL!
apparition wrote:Lacka could do something cool with a site designing service maybe. Concord could offer his copy writing or reporting skills. Sine could offer his voice for commentation. If you don't start this up quick, I will and I'm gonna call it appa's Armagetron Marketplace.
As long as youre paying Appa, do ya thing bro do it. Personally I have good baking skills, chocolate chip cookies, and I could supply them to the tens of viewers of tron youtube videos. Price: *ONE BILLION DOLLARS* **RAISES PINKY TO MOUTH**
WINNER OF: Ladle 47 .... preSsure's mom & Durka's mom

"If you're not part of the freaks, you're part of the boredom." -Perry Farrell
Luke-Jr
Dr Z Level
Posts: 2246
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 4:03 pm
Location: IM: luke@dashjr.org

Re: You want new features?

Post by Luke-Jr »

apparition wrote:Maybe we're tired of coming up with projects that require your attention that end up failing because you don't give a shit?
Like what? Bounties are failing because the other end (financers) have no interest. Putting more effort into a concept that lacks the the interest it requires to be useful is just a waste of time. Instead of writing a bounty webapp that nobody will use, I could be working on CTF/sty and 0.4 (which will still happen regardless of funding-- just not as quickly as if I could dedicate all my development time to it).
User avatar
Phytotron
Formerly Oscilloscope
Posts: 5042
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:06 pm
Location: A site or situation, especially considered in regard to its surroundings.
Contact:

Re: You want new features?

Post by Phytotron »

How much would I have to pay to finance the following:

• Remove extra axes
• Restrict maps to simple shapes
• Remove all zone-based game modes (e.g., Fortress, Sumo, CTF, shooting, et al)
• Disable multi-binding
• Hard code CYCLE_DELAY to 0.1
• Remove rubber and replace it with: 1) A different mechanism for latency compensation; 2) A new mechanism for only very brief contact with walls, with little to no "depth of grind."

...for starters.
Word
Reverse Adjust Outside Corner Grinder
Posts: 4321
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:13 pm

Re: You want new features?

Post by Word »

Phytotron wrote:How much would I have to pay to finance the following:

• Remove extra axes
• Restrict maps to simple shapes
• Remove all zone-based game modes (e.g., Fortress, Sumo, CTF, shooting, et al)
• Disable multi-binding
• Hard code CYCLE_DELAY to 0.1
• Remove rubber and replace it with: 1) A different mechanism for latency compensation; 2) A new mechanism for only very brief contact with walls, with little to no "depth of grind."

...for starters.
+ ban all clans, df servers and don't allow these 'tournaments' (who the hell needs popularity contests..)
User avatar
Phytotron
Formerly Oscilloscope
Posts: 5042
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:06 pm
Location: A site or situation, especially considered in regard to its surroundings.
Contact:

Re: You want new features?

Post by Phytotron »

/me Wonders if anyone will actually get the point of my previous post (besides the plain joke aspect).
Last edited by Phytotron on Sat Jun 26, 2010 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Word
Reverse Adjust Outside Corner Grinder
Posts: 4321
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:13 pm

Re: You want new features?

Post by Word »

money talks?
User avatar
Nelhybel
Round Winner
Posts: 231
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:51 pm

Re: You want new features?

Post by Nelhybel »

inciting trouble?
Feel free to contact me here or on the grid if you would like assistance or support in beginning a relationship with Jesus Christ.
---
uNa| United Noobs of Armagetron Forums
-=}ID< Immortal Dynasty Forums
_~`Ww_ Wild West Forums
Luke-Jr
Dr Z Level
Posts: 2246
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 4:03 pm
Location: IM: luke@dashjr.org

Re: You want new features?

Post by Luke-Jr »

Phytotron wrote:How much would I have to pay to finance the following:

• Remove extra axes
• Restrict maps to simple shapes
• Remove all zone-based game modes (e.g., Fortress, Sumo, CTF, shooting, et al)
• Disable multi-binding
• Hard code CYCLE_DELAY to 0.1
These all sound like trivial server modifications. Except for the last one, I'd almost think you were asking to "maintain 0.2.7".
Phytotron wrote:• Remove rubber and replace it with: 1) A different mechanism for latency compensation; 2) A new mechanism for only very brief contact with walls, with little to no "depth of grind."
I'll leave someone familiar with rubber to give you a quote on this...
User avatar
Phytotron
Formerly Oscilloscope
Posts: 5042
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:06 pm
Location: A site or situation, especially considered in regard to its surroundings.
Contact:

Re: You want new features?

Post by Phytotron »

Sigh. No one got it. Partially, it was just a stand-alone joke. As far as any subtle points buried within:

Apparition is raising all this fuss (with the addition of Sin's rantings and ravings) that the developers need to be cramming in more and more stuff. NOW! There's also this accusation that the developers are deaf, dumb, and blind to people's "feature requests."

Here's the deal. First-off, most folks know my primary criticisms of the direction of development of this game has been that the developers are too open to shoving in all these "special features" that, in my view, have no business being in this game, while [ignoring, abandoning, or not having established in the first place] any core concept of what this game is. What LukeJr just called "trivial," I consider rather major. Now, maybe it's been awhile since any of those new major huge mondo teh awesome features have been added, but several things have been trickled in over time since the first 0.2.8.x version. No way have they been too closed and/or stagnant.

Secondly, I do think the developers should be subject to lobbying and even criticism, as anyone putting out a work to the public. Moreover, if putting up a server is a "service to the community," as Z-Man recently contended, then surely the game itself on which those servers are based is a service itself, and likewise its developers subject to being responsive to said community.

And, here's the thing: for the most part, they are. They may not immediately hop to it and abide by your adolescent instant-gratification-inspired demands to cram it in RIGHT NOW DAMNIT!!!, but you'll usually get some response. And usually, it's not one of conceptual rejection. Again, usually, and to my dismay, they're at least conceptually open to doing something, but for one reason or another can't implement it RIGHT @#$%ING NOW!!! And when that's the case, they give you a reason(s) why it has to be delayed. This was already covered in Apparition's first thread here, and recently illustrated here, for example.

And while you may not like it, and may have your criticisms, the one thing you and I have both been able to know throughout is that no one is buying special individual influence, and no developer is being bought. Yet. But Apparition is trying to change that so that a few affluent kids with mommy's and/or daddy's cash to burn can get their way. (Not that the developers would necessarily agree to anything some rich kid demanded, but that's the principle of what you're attempting to do.)

I, for one, have been turned off by all these recent money-making schemes (as well as some of those by TR2N, incidentally). The quid pro quo nature of it is especially disturbing. No-strings charitable donations are one thing, but if there's any money to be made for the developer's services, it should be derived equally from anyone who plays the game. But that would make it a commercial enterprise, and my assumption is the development team wouldn't embrace that direction.
User avatar
apparition
Match Winner
Posts: 630
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:59 am
Location: The Mitten, USA

Re: You want new features?

Post by apparition »

Phytotron wrote:Sigh. No one got it. Partially, it was just a stand-alone joke. As far as any subtle points buried within:

Apparition is raising all this fuss (with the addition of Sin's rantings and ravings) that the developers need to be cramming in more and more stuff. NOW! There's also this accusation that the developers are deaf, dumb, and blind to people's "feature requests."

Here's the deal. First-off, most folks know my primary criticisms of the direction of development of this game has been that the developers are too open to shoving in all these "special features" that, in my view, have no business being in this game, while [ignoring, abandoning, or not having established in the first place] any core concept of what this game is. What LukeJr just called "trivial," I consider rather major. Now, maybe it's been awhile since any of those new major huge mondo teh awesome features have been added, but several things have been trickled in over time since the first 0.2.8.x version. No way have they been too closed and/or stagnant.

Secondly, I do think the developers should be subject to lobbying and even criticism, as anyone putting out a work to the public. Moreover, if putting up a server is a "service to the community," as Z-Man recently contended, then surely the game itself on which those servers are based is a service itself, and likewise its developers subject to being responsive to said community.

And, here's the thing: for the most part, they are. They may not immediately hop to it and abide by your adolescent instant-gratification-inspired demands to cram it in RIGHT NOW DAMNIT!!!, but you'll usually get some response. And usually, it's not one of conceptual rejection. Again, usually, and to my dismay, they're at least conceptually open to doing something, but for one reason or another can't implement it RIGHT @#$%ING NOW!!! And when that's the case, they give you a reason(s) why it has to be delayed. This was already covered in Apparition's first thread here, and recently illustrated here, for example.

And while you may not like it, and may have your criticisms, the one thing you and I have both been able to know throughout is that no one is buying special individual influence, and no developer is being bought. Yet. But Apparition is trying to change that so that a few affluent kids with mommy's and/or daddy's cash to burn can get their way. (Not that the developers would necessarily agree to anything some rich kid demanded, but that's the principle of what you're attempting to do.)

I, for one, have been turned off by all these recent money-making schemes (as well as some of those by TR2N, incidentally). The quid pro quo nature of it is especially disturbing. No-strings charitable donations are one thing, but if there's any money to be made for the developer's services, it should be derived equally from anyone who plays the game. But that would make it a commercial enterprise, and my assumption is the development team wouldn't embrace that direction..
Phytotron you missed all the crucial points I've made in your response here (starting out with why I'm raising a fuss, which is way off). I don't think you meant the post to summarize your understanding of the crucial points that have been made because I trust your intelligence, but you've unfairly utilized your post as a tool to point out shortcomings of myself and the average users here.

So, I am definitely annoyed by all the money-making stuff that has been going around, too. My first comment here demonstrated that (something about making Arma a business). However, I also understood the posts Luke-Jr has been making are pleas for help. So I tried to help out. I'm not impatient with progress. I'm actually pretty happy and satisfied with the game itself. You make me out to be some sort of lunatic, but I think there is a lot of credit due to a lot of people around here who don't get that credit. Does that mean I want a few rich kids to give up some money? Well, yeah, maybe I kinda do. Did I say anything about changing the game for them? No. I wasn't asking anyone to pimp out changes to the game for money. What I was actually trying to do was open up a space where people could showcase their talents and maybe someone could get some satisfaction from doing so.

If people are pushy and impatient with Arma, that's their problem, not yours, mine, or the developers'. What I have been pointing out is not that things don't happen RIGHT NOW when someone asks. I initially asked what the eff was going on with Arma and Tr2n because it felt like something was up. And later, I asked about helping make things more cooperative around here. I've always felt I've made myself clear, and you're just another person who has misjudged my posts and my attitude. Maybe reread my posts knowing this and maybe you can write another page long comment to help me understand what I'm doing wrong.

In reality, the issue I raised here isn't actually the future of the Armagetron Marketplace or the idea of changing the game to make people money (even if I feel the Marketplace idea could have been given a little more attention). The issue became the idea that Arma developers sometimes ignore requests to collaborate/cooperate on ideas that may be beneficial to the community as a whole. I now understand the developers' points of view on some of these situations (mainly that they hold responsibility for the direction of the game and can make judgments better than myself about what's good/bad) and I appreciate that. And now you've made the issue into something different with your arrogance.
User avatar
Phytotron
Formerly Oscilloscope
Posts: 5042
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:06 pm
Location: A site or situation, especially considered in regard to its surroundings.
Contact:

Re: You want new features?

Post by Phytotron »

Hmm, that post was mostly fine enough up until the last line. Where the hell in my post did you divine "arrogance?" For cryin' out loud, probably every one of your posts in this thread is dripping with snottiness. Please.
Post Reply