Please Help Clarify the Current Situation with Arma and Tr2n

[apparition]

Please share your thoughts on the current Arma/Tr2n divide if you will.

I have no idea what is going on with all this stuff, so this is both a rant and a cry for help.

It was already annoying enough with all the different builds of Arma with different features piling up without a definitive game, and now we have Tr2n Origins, too? I know Tr2n has been out for a while and both teams have been working on whatever they're working on, but it's getting to the point where someone has to make a choice. In or out, Tr2n? Why make a choice? Because it doesn't make sense for someone's personal problems to lead to so much division and disorder. It's counterproductive, rude, and annoying. I'm faithful. I'm devout. And as far as I'm concerned (and please give me reasons to change my opinion), Destiny and whoever else decided to start working against the Arma developers instead of with them made a sacrifice that should basically exile them from the sacred lands of AA. That means no one should be spending their valuable time compatibilitizing (backwards or forwards), and none of us should have to be downloading random ass stuff for each game, or hacking, or trying to win over players. I trust the devs of Armagetron Advanced. I don't trust Tr2n.

I'm gonna ask some questions and I don't even know who the hell I'm asking them to...

Who made Tr2n?
If Tr2n people didn't want to contribute to AA, then why are they continuing to be involved?
Is Armagetron Ad. and Tr2n Origins the same game? What's the difference?
Are Arma and Tr2n working separately or together?
Why did they make it?
What is the future of Tr2n and Armagetron Advanced?

What's the point of all this?

Clarification: I didn't realize there was a big to-do about this (I just skimmed through the posts that Concord shared below). To be frank, I'm not trolling or flaming or whatever, but I was in the middle of a traffic jam when I wrote this I do think there's a lot to be told about this situation and I don't think there's any reason to hold back what people have to say. Please let everyone know what's going on here!

[sinewav]

Hmm, kind of a touchy subject to some. I can see this getting ugly if we're not careful. However, I can also see some benefit to documenting the circumstances around the fork. Can we try and link to relevant threads and answer apparition's questions in a way that allows me to capture the bulk of the information for a wiki entry? I'd really like to do that with your help.

[ZURD101]

note to any mod that might review this in a bad way, please do not lock yet.

another sidenote: the heads of the project wont be able to speak untill friday(afk) so...we'll see then

[Concord]

http://forums3.armagetronad.net/viewtop ... hilit=tr2n


I used to have more to say.
uhhh

[kyle]

It's true there are confusions and stuff about it. so here is how most of it went to my knowledge.

It all started about a year ago, Destiny proposed a new mainsite. Zurd, who was planning to help destiny, asked for root access to make their proposal. At that time Zurd had no clue what root access really was, so the idea was basically shot down after that.

Eventually they released tr2n. This was more of a hack of sty+ct armagetron. i Don't remember everything that was changed, but some of the cockpit and color changing. They also broke the network code so that tr2n and armagetron could not talk to one another. Here is a diff

Also the conversation on IRC that evening after destiny posted it probably pretty useful. I think this is the one that we tried to work out a compromise with destiny also. if not it was within that week.

Now that a background has been set let me answer some of those questions. Tr2n is mainly developed by manta, destiny's husband and they guy that started the wild west servers. As i stated above there are very little differences in the two games just a few different changes try it. Luke-jr tried to have tr2n agree to work together but they chose not to as they kept braking a few more things from each of their releases. They made it more or less out of the upset from the misunderstanding that was made in their main site proposal.

Tr2n is setting on the 0.2.8 line of armagetronad, however if it becomes popular they will start building a new engine. armagetron on the other hand hopefully will move onto 0.4 which will be based on a lot of the things in the 0.3 builds.

The above to my knowledge is all correct, now for this question it is just my speculation.

If Tr2n people didn't want to contribute to AA, then why are they continuing to be involved?

I believe they keep coming back to tron to build a player base, everytime i look at tr2n's serverlist it is for the most part empty. However it is a little against what they were planning at the start. It was supposed to be a new player base, with a few people that play(ed) armagetron. So more or less I think it is advertising.

[ZURD101]

The above to my knowledge is all correct,

kindasortanotreallybutstillitstothebestofyourknowladge

If Tr2n people didn't want to contribute to AA, then why are they continuing to be involved?

I believe they keep coming back to tron to build a player base, [...]. However it is a little against what they were planning at the start. [...] So more or less I think it is advertising.

no.

[sinewav]

no.

If you know more, can you please elaborate? Like I mentioned above, I'd like to record an accurate account of the events surrounding the fork. Thanks.

[ZURD101]

i have to wait till firday >.>

[Tremor]

Who made Tr2n?
If Tr2n people didn't want to contribute to AA, then why are they continuing to be involved?
Is Armagetron Ad. and Tr2n Origins the same game? What's the difference?
Are Arma and Tr2n working separately or together?
Why did they make it?
What is the future of Tr2n and Armagetron Advanced?

1. Manta is the main programming guy but he has received plenty of help from people like Compguy, Pathetique, Destiny, Zurd, and others.

2. Well Tr2n is a fork so you can call it the same game but with different features and capabilities. There are cool things in tr2n you can do that you can't in AA. For example the color coding software in Tr2n is far superior allowing for any combination of bike and tail coloration.

3. When Tr2n was first released it seemed like both developers of Tr2n and AA would work together and share things to better both games. But so far it seems they both team of developers have kept to their own game and don't really share ideas or help.

4. It was created because of the way things worked in AA for what i can see. Destiny presented many ideas to the developers of AA but her ideas were shot down. She felt these ideas were very good and should be implemented so she decided to go in another direction.

5. Well both AA and Tr2n will be making more builds and trying to extend their game to a new level. There is no clear future really and maybe both AA and Tr2n developers might see fit to work together in the future. Who knows...that is why it is called the future

Appa, Destiny in no way is trying to start some revolt. She and other people had ideas about tron that could make it better but were really never listened to so they decided to make their own tr2n game. It is very simple. I really don't think you should treat her like some traitor of the highest degree. She is a very polite and nice person and you should talk to her once in awhile.

P.S. Everything posted once why common knowledge of me just talking to Tr2n developers and playing the Tr2n game.

[gawdzilla]

tr2n origins is never going to get a new playerbase nor full servers, I wonder when they'll finally kill the project

in the mean time: go go go 0.4 armagetron

[compguygene]

tr2n origins is never going to get a new playerbase nor full servers, I wonder when they'll finally kill the project

in the mean time: go go go 0.4 armagetron

Although I host some TR2NOrigins servers, and was involved in the project in its inception, I am no longer involved in the project, other than the servers that I currently host there. In many ways, I agree with Deadmau5 here. This is why all of my efforts and energy toward my hobby have been directed solely at Armagetron.

[arilou]

We ID brethren will go anywhere there is competition.

& more importantly

Kudos for those who make the different FUN servers, help newer players, and create subcultures within this non-violent game of tails that surround tails to win!

& even more importantly

Get out on the grid and play every once in awhile join in the fun!

[Word]

Who made Tr2n?

http://tr2norigins.net/forum/tr2n_history.php?

If Tr2n people didn't want to contribute to AA, then why are they continuing to be involved?

that question doesn't make sense, because they already did contribute to AA (and are still contributing).

Is Armagetron Ad. and Tr2n Origins the same game? What's the difference?

It's no secret that the differences aren't very big, but you know that the community is moderated and that there are some different features (concerning menu structure, visual appearance, moviepacks etc).
But I do not think that AA and Tr2n are rival products, hence I don't understand the aim of this post. Tr2n won't stay an AA clone, and Armagetron will probably develop in a completely different direction.
If you need a small preview, check out this topic (and the "screenshot").

Are Arma and Tr2n working separately or together?

there's an arma client which supports both games as far as i remember

Why did they make it?

(see Concord's link)

What is the future of Tr2n and Armagetron Advanced?

that's also up to the AA devs, right?

What's the point of all this?

(see Concord's link)

[Sinn]

Well to be completely honest I like both games, each has their good and bad. I will support Manta and Destiny until I am given a reason not to. To be completely honest I don't know much about Manta, BUT I do know a little about Destiny.

Straight to the point Destiny cares. Armagetron creators, shall I say DON'T. Many times I have also spoken of ideas and plans that would be great for this game. NO ONE here cares. Everytime there is an idea it is shot down by , OH that's too hard, or OH that will take too long , it's not worth it. BULL SHIT.

I have fun playing both games. If my ideas are heard and whoever is doing the developing listens to it's players THAT is where I will be. I have played this game since very near to when it came out. For a player that has played as long as I have the developers have never listened to any single idea I have had. I remember back in the day when I was saying. Wouldn't it be awsome if we had like, these zones and you had to stay inside them and fight, and if you get knocked out of it or stay out of it so long you die? Well i'm not smart enough for any kind of computer programing, but lo and behold half a year down the road out comes Sumo and all these other servers. Well , I gues someone smart listened, but they took it as all their own idea.

Anyway, maybe this will help the game as a whole. Maybe developers will start listening to more ideas and maybe careing a bit instead of being this Clickish lil group of nerds that only care about what the other nerds think instead of normal players.

Good luck Destiny, Manta and whoever else. I hope tr2n flourishes and becomes great. I know you guys actually care so maybe this will go far.

Compguy I thought you were pretty cool, smart you know all that. But maybe Taz was right about you. To me you seem like a little weasle traitor. Get into this project and now your like, OH this will never go anywhere i'm not working on this project anymore. Well i'm glad you can switch who's ass your kissing on such a short notice.

GOOD LUCK TO ALL !

[gawdzilla]

I love how Sinn tried to make it seem like he invented sumo/fortress