Feature Request: Remove Local Games

[Z-Man]

Oh, those. They're still distributed in the Linux and Windows version. How were they in the Mac version? Just files in the .dmg?

[theroze]

My opinion: Bad idea. For those tronners who have bad ping its always silly to play "online". Local rounds are also good for testing maps, and testing tricks and moviepack and so on.

[Phytotron]

Yes, definitely, settings as well.

Oh, those. They're still distributed in the Linux and Windows version. How were they in the Mac version? Just files in the .dmg?

I don't recall, actually. Finder tells me that most of the files in there were created in mid-early 2006, most on June 6. (I may have mixed some together.)

Actually, before looking at that I thought it was older, from 0.2.7.1 days, at least, and that I may have added in just whatever changed over time. I think back then it wasn't coming as a .dmg yet, just a zip file, but I'm not certain. I think I recall it being a folder that had the app, the AUTHORS file by itself (and maybe the COPYING and NEWS files as well), and then a folder with all those HTML files in it. That is to say, I think I created that "Armagetron Documentation" folder and threw all that in there.

If I look now, however, 0.2.7.1 comes as a .tar.gz file, and it's just the app by itself.

I don't know!

But I do know that if one downloads 0.2.8.2.1 from armagetronad.net, all that's there is a .dmg containing the application and that alone.


I'm not suggesting that those specific HTML docs be included, necessarily, just citing them as an example. Most Mac software will come with a file called "Read Me," or sometimes "Read Me First!" or some variation.

— Welcome to Armagetron Advanced. Here's a description and concept.
— Here's what you're able to do with the client: Local, LAN, and internet
— Here's what all those menu sections are and do, and all the setup stuff you should check out
— Here's the basics of how to play
— Here's a categorized FAQ
— Here's a link to the wiki for further elaboration

...or what have you.

[Concord]

If users want to take from the community, that is playing the game, we ought to demand something in return. Without them playing on the network, the community gets nothing back. Not feedback, not new map, gamemodes and servers, not more competition, nothing. Currently, we make it hard for users, like the million+ that download it off sourceforge, to contribute to community. Now that makes no sense.

Now, the current request being negotiated is to bury Local Games, and make the forefront choice, the option one will get from hitting enter twice, Internet Game. Local Games will still exist. The only people who disagree with this should be the people who prefer Local Games over Internet Games. Anyone else recognizes that Internet Games are more enjoyable, and we ought to try to get as many users playing them as possible.

[Phytotron]

If users want to take from the community, that is playing the game, we ought to demand something in return. Without them playing on the network, the community gets nothing back. Not feedback, not new map, gamemodes and servers, not more competition, nothing.

And just who the hell are you to demand anything from people who download this game? It's a free, open source game. If someone wants to download it and only ever play it locally and never have any contact with the "community" in any fashion, that's their choice and you're in absolutely no position to demand shit.

Again, "Internet Game" is not buried or hidden or difficult to get to in any fashion. That's a canard. This is just more stupid 2020-like social engineering baloney.

[Concord]

It is their choice, and it would still be with this revision. If the community wants to benefit, we should change the menu in this way. I, you and every single player out there, especially the developers are in a position to demand something back from the masses. We're demanding they get a better game. The individual you keep resting your argument on would also benefit from going online. There is absolutely nothing wrong in guiding someone for their own benefit.

You keep preaching about choice, but many players never know they have a choice. Over a million players have downloaded the game, why are only about 2000 playing online? If it was not buried, would more than .2% play online? We're not trying to take away choice, we're trying to provide it. So stop lying about that. Well, you might not be lying, you just don't know. Now you do.

[Z-Man]

If it was not buried, would more than .2% play online?

You're thoroughly neglecting that people may not like that game, and that few if none of the rest would like it enough to stick with it over its so far almost ten years long lifespan. Internet games are not buried. Yes, they take three keypresses more, but the path should be obvious to anyone interested in playing against real people on the net.

[kyle]

I would have to say if it was not for local game mode to figure out how to turn and whatnot. I probably would have never made it to the internet game. So i would have to disagree with concord on this one. I think the some online players today would actually harm people that come straight into the online game. Players need at least some practice with them self and some bots before moving to the net.

I don't believe that the online game is hidden, I remember back when i first played that i thought i better learn a little be on local game before playing on the net.

however maybe local games should not be as discouraging, I think that CYCLE_RUBBER 1 could discourage some. I have not played local and i believe that this was talked about at one time, but could ROUND_CONSOLE_MESSAGE also be set to give some new players advice if they it is not already?

[Jonathan]

however maybe local games should not be as discouraging, I think that CYCLE_RUBBER 1 could discourage some.

Back in the days the base speed was 10. At some point it was upped to 30 while leaving rubber at 1, I think. Now is the time to debate whether that was right or not while I hide away for a week.

[pike]

If it was not buried, would more than .2% play online?

You're thoroughly neglecting that people may not like that game, and that few if none of the rest would like it enough to stick with it over its so far almost ten years long lifespan. Internet games are not buried. Yes, they take three keypresses more, but the path should be obvious to anyone interested in playing against real people on the net.

Maybe they didn't like it because they chose local game first? (which suck compared to online game, let's be honest, it's not ctwf or ctfs, bots are stupid, it's getting boring really fast). Proof? YT videos. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YNKcxB8JoQ (That's not how you do it lad!)

I'm not english native speaker and considering that most people choose english after first start, I must say that "Network" is not the word most non-english speaking people connect with "online", "internet", etc. I know it took me like 2 months before I first got in internet game option! (/me is a noob).

I'm not a big fan of burying local game option as I use it very often while doing stuff like new textures, models, etc. Let it stay where it is. But promoting online gameplay is important, because that's how the game can grow. And it has to grow (I think we all agree with this one?).

Internet game is the strongest point of this game. And it's buried down in 2nd submenu.

Kyle: New players shouldn't enter team games, but why not let them play on deathmatch servers? You won't learn how to double bind, dig, what's rubber etc. on local game. When you can't choose gametype and amount of rubber it's pointless to play local game really.

[Concord]

If it was not buried, would more than .2% play online?

You're thoroughly neglecting that people may not like that game, and that few if none of the rest would like it enough to stick with it over its so far almost ten years long lifespan. Internet games are not buried. Yes, they take three keypresses more, but the path should be obvious to anyone interested in playing against real people on the net.

I'm not neglecting them. Part of why they don't like it is because only the best player play online. When they go, there is no one of their skill level. Of course you don't think they are buried. The words "Local" and "Network" mean a lot less to the average person than they do to a game developer.

Regarding Kyle's concerns, the players who want to play with capable opponents will use auth-only servers. The ones who want high level games can go off the master list (see Monkey's VIP) or can schedule a war or play in a league or play in a Ladle.

[akira]

If it's possible adding a shortcut to the Internet game in the main menu would be ok. Not that it is needed, because any internet user with some spark of intelligence will find network games -> internet.

I do heavily disagree with your and 2020's opinions about this game. In my opinion it is first and foremost am open-source and free game, demanding nothing from the user besides the download and willingness to play. As long as the devs don't want change that it will stay so.

If users want to take from the community, that is playing the game, we ought to demand something in return.

I do not really understand that sentence in context of arma. Giving freely is key to open-source and non-profit undertakings.

[Concord]

If they play in servers from the master list, we get something in return.

[Phytotron]

however maybe local games should not be as discouraging, I think that CYCLE_RUBBER 1 could discourage some.

Back in the days the base speed was 10. At some point it was upped to 30 while leaving rubber at 1, I think. Now is the time to debate whether that was right or not while I hide away for a week.

Yes, return it to 10. There's my vote.


I'll also add, and this has become a refrain, but some of you need to realise that these gimmicky zone-based game modes are not the be-all, end-all of this game. Like I mentioned in another recent thread, there's newer players who mistakenly believe that's the core of the game and always has been, which couldn't be further from the truth. If we're going to be talking about influencing and predisposing people toward a particular aspect of this game, forget this local vs. online stuff. I would rather like to see a rededication to the core game.

I don't know whether it's any coincidence or not that the quality and character of the player community went downhill once all this stuff came along, as well.

[Word]

I don't know whether it's any coincidence or not that the quality and character of the player community went downhill once all this stuff came along, as well.

That's your viewpoint. The rest if the community likes all this stuff whereas you don't seem to adapt. I don't say you have to; but unsurprisingly, most posters here tell you to do so.
It's a trend, and if you don't like empty servers, play fortress. Nobody defines whether fortress or some game mode with default settings is called the core game.
There will be a new game type, some months ago there were countless of hr and dog fight servers, most of them are dead now.

(do you know the ghost driver's monologue? - THEY ARE ALL GHOST DRIVERS!!!)