About your avatar commander....
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Tank Program
- Forum & Project Admin, PhD
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Geez, I thought it was pretty obvious by now. The legendary character "Lucifer" is one of my personal heroes. You see, without going into too much detail, the way I figure it, God, as represented in the Bible, is pure unadulterated evil fascism. So why did Lucifer want to overthrow heaven?n54 wrote: Lucifer? Why did you choose your name? I think some of us are wondering
....wait for it....
He wanted Freedom Fries!
Or something like that. I think he's the most underestimated "villain" of all-time, and the one fictional character who stands for everything that is good about mankind, and he is hated almost universally.
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Sabarai
- The Former Man of Cheese
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you've got one vote titTiTnAsS wrote:n54...ur posts r to long...im mentally drained on tues/wed....at the end of ur mile long posts write "TiTnAsS version: (a shortenedd version)"..... to save my brain! lol
lucifer: i actually never thought further by ur name; lucifer is the dutch word for match as in the one 2 make fire, lol
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Commandante GFS
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Re: About your avatar commander....
Hi Sabarai!Sabarai wrote:Your avatar is the picture of a communist man. I don't know who, but he's communist, that's what I do know.
You're hungarian.
Didn't the hungarians hate the commies and had a major strike on the communist sovjet government back in '56? But which was very tough stopped by the hungarian army under control of Moskow?
So why oh why do you have a commie as your avatar?
Ernesto Guevara was a very great man, I dont want to write why, but I honour him.
No, not all hungarian hate communist, beacuse it was an antirevolution in '56. Usually hungarian nationalists hate communists. But of course It wasnt good from sovjets because the hungarian's warp of the mind. I dont like this capitalist system like in Hungary, i would live in a more peacefull and softer system. If you live here, you can realize it. But please dont misunderstand me, I like Hungary, all in all i WOULD live in a better system IN Hungary
.Sry for my english
Szevasz.
Hasta la victoria siempre!
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Sabarai
- The Former Man of Cheese
- Posts: 2383
- Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 9:00 pm
- Location: 52°09'30.24"N 5°18'48.17"
ok, I read some stuff about Ernesto 'Che' Guevara on the internet, www.wikipedia.com..
It said that he indeed did some good things, like volunteer work. BUT, he's responsible for the deaths of hundreds of ppl, and he even executed a suspect-informer himself... He was arrested by the Bolivian army with CIA lead. The CIA wanted 2 question him, but the Bolivian army already executed him.
If he was such a great man, why would several governments want to have him out of his positions? And why did he kill al those ppl?
You wouldn't take a picture of Hitler as ur avatar, right?
It said that he indeed did some good things, like volunteer work. BUT, he's responsible for the deaths of hundreds of ppl, and he even executed a suspect-informer himself... He was arrested by the Bolivian army with CIA lead. The CIA wanted 2 question him, but the Bolivian army already executed him.
If he was such a great man, why would several governments want to have him out of his positions? And why did he kill al those ppl?
You wouldn't take a picture of Hitler as ur avatar, right?
Sabarai, sabarai, sabarai. Some more critical thinking, if you will.
And don't forget he lost, which is why he's a bad guy. If the English has won the American Revolution, George Washington would have been a martyr and Benedict Arnold a hero. Neither one of them escaped that war without being responsible for the deaths of hundreds of people, and current events to the side, the US has been a good country and has done numerous laudable things in the world that they may not have otherwise done.
Che and Lenin and all those others have a point about a few things, though. Capitalism sucks, it really does. Just because we haven't found anything that works better doesn't make it good. Being poor sucks (I speak from experience, here ). What really sucks is when you fight and struggle and still come up short on rent, only to learn that the person you're paying has fewer skills, is dumber, weaker, and so forth, but the only reason they're your landlord is because of who their family is. That stuff really sucks. You probably didn't expect such an admission from me, but Communism hasn't been implemented "properly" yet, if it ever does. And it'll be very difficult to affect a transition when most people are wired to measure success in material gains, and communism takes the material gains out of the equation.
I've been wondering for some time how communism would look with a democracy, a regular freedom-loving democracy (you know, something the world really hasn't seen yet).
I think there's something better coming down the line. THere's been a lot of experimentation with different government systems this past century. Getting away from the absolute monarchies has been good, now Republic isn't so cutting-edge anymore, and so forth. I expect in another hundred years (maybe less) someone's going ot implement a system that's not quite capitalism, not quite communism, definitely not socialism, with a government on top that has most of the traits of republic, most of the traits of democracy, and pulls through on most of its promises for protecting the rights of people and so forth. Hell, maybe that's what China will get if they ever overthrow their government. It might be the US's next government. Hm?
He was in, waht, Central/South America? So the fact that he executed a suspect-informer himself doesn't mean much. Put yourself in his shoes, what would you have done?Sabarai wrote: It said that he indeed did some good things, like volunteer work. BUT, he's responsible for the deaths of hundreds of ppl, and he even executed a suspect-informer himself... He was arrested by the Bolivian army with CIA lead. The CIA wanted 2 question him, but the Bolivian army already executed him.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but Jesus was wanted by several governments. Jesus was wanted by many, and finally executed himself. My only point is that how many people want to kill you or dismiss you from your position is a very unreliable way of measuring a man's worth. Frequently, the fact that so many people want you dead is because you are worth a lot.If he was such a great man, why would several governments want to have him out of his positions?
What people seem to forget about the American Revolutoin (yeah, I know, you're not american) is that George Washington and company snuck into the enemy camp and slaughtered numerous Germans while they were sleeping. He's a hero. Why? Because he won. Che lost, that's all.And why did he kill al those ppl?
Not sure I see Guevara as being equal to Hitler. Hitler was definitely loony, Guevara, well, let's just say that it's very difficult to look at a man like him without showing some ethnocentrism.You wouldn't take a picture of Hitler as ur avatar, right?
And don't forget he lost, which is why he's a bad guy. If the English has won the American Revolution, George Washington would have been a martyr and Benedict Arnold a hero. Neither one of them escaped that war without being responsible for the deaths of hundreds of people, and current events to the side, the US has been a good country and has done numerous laudable things in the world that they may not have otherwise done.
Che and Lenin and all those others have a point about a few things, though. Capitalism sucks, it really does. Just because we haven't found anything that works better doesn't make it good. Being poor sucks (I speak from experience, here
). What really sucks is when you fight and struggle and still come up short on rent, only to learn that the person you're paying has fewer skills, is dumber, weaker, and so forth, but the only reason they're your landlord is because of who their family is. That stuff really sucks. You probably didn't expect such an admission from me, but Communism hasn't been implemented "properly" yet, if it ever does. And it'll be very difficult to affect a transition when most people are wired to measure success in material gains, and communism takes the material gains out of the equation.I've been wondering for some time how communism would look with a democracy, a regular freedom-loving democracy (you know, something the world really hasn't seen yet).
I think there's something better coming down the line. THere's been a lot of experimentation with different government systems this past century. Getting away from the absolute monarchies has been good, now Republic isn't so cutting-edge anymore, and so forth. I expect in another hundred years (maybe less) someone's going ot implement a system that's not quite capitalism, not quite communism, definitely not socialism, with a government on top that has most of the traits of republic, most of the traits of democracy, and pulls through on most of its promises for protecting the rights of people and so forth. Hell, maybe that's what China will get if they ever overthrow their government. It might be the US's next government. Hm?
Warning: some opinions contained herein might offend a socialist/communist reader - please do not take it personally
It would eventually look like Soviet Russia, I'm not kidding, the sovjets actually started off pretty good after their revolution but naive structures based on the "good" of human nature (such as communism) rarely last more than a few years in their pure form and then turn into gruesome totalitarian states (to which the US or any other even halfassed democratic nation bears little real resemblance despite what liberal radicals/useful idiots like to think).
Communism (like facism) requires that everyone is an ideal communist to work. It shouldn't be hard to see logically that all it takes is a person that doesn't conform a 100% to the ideal to make things go wrong - and absolutely none of us could ever conform a 100%. The result is a given.
So, then they say something like "ah but then one makes the structure less naive with checks and balances and one weed out the bad elements" and that is exactly what they did... welcome to gulag (Sovjet) or if you try to do it all up front you get the death fields of Cambodia.
communism & socialism simply fit human nature worse than all the various more liberal (in the true sense of the word) democratic systems.
belief in one's own "goodness" (plain hubris)
+ belief in a "good & caring" system (plain naivitee)
+ belief that everything would be solved if everyone agree with you (or at least do as you say) (plain bullying)
= total disaster
oh and maybe you'll all notice that these beliefs are still thought to be the silver bullets by leftists all over the world who often defend their faith (yes it's a faith) by saying that there just hasn't been the right implementation yet and that this is the reason all communist countries were/are facist.
as for those espousing parliamentarian communism how can they prove/ensure that it won't turn out just in the same way as when Hitler came to power? (Hitler came to power through democratic elections for those who do not know). It doesn't solve the horror of the ideology when turned into practice.
btw:
- i live in Norway, one of the most socialist countries in europe (so i know how that is like)
- Norway as a state is insanely rich from oil and this is more or less the only reason we're not a 3rd world country (as we were before they struck black gold)
- i'm on the way towards disability pay (so i know how the system that's meant to be our advantage "works")
Totally off topic: Free said Communist played at swampys not so long ago and that everything was fine with him (which is nice) - just in case others who liked C haven't heard
This is just an answer. I'm not saying you're saying any of these things Lucifer.Lucifer wrote:I've been wondering for some time how communism would look with a democracy, a regular freedom-loving democracy (you know, something the world really hasn't seen yet).
It would eventually look like Soviet Russia, I'm not kidding, the sovjets actually started off pretty good after their revolution but naive structures based on the "good" of human nature (such as communism) rarely last more than a few years in their pure form and then turn into gruesome totalitarian states (to which the US or any other even halfassed democratic nation bears little real resemblance despite what liberal radicals/useful idiots like to think).
Communism (like facism) requires that everyone is an ideal communist to work. It shouldn't be hard to see logically that all it takes is a person that doesn't conform a 100% to the ideal to make things go wrong - and absolutely none of us could ever conform a 100%. The result is a given.
So, then they say something like "ah but then one makes the structure less naive with checks and balances and one weed out the bad elements" and that is exactly what they did... welcome to gulag (Sovjet) or if you try to do it all up front you get the death fields of Cambodia.
communism & socialism simply fit human nature worse than all the various more liberal (in the true sense of the word) democratic systems.
belief in one's own "goodness" (plain hubris)
+ belief in a "good & caring" system (plain naivitee)
+ belief that everything would be solved if everyone agree with you (or at least do as you say) (plain bullying)
= total disaster
oh and maybe you'll all notice that these beliefs are still thought to be the silver bullets by leftists all over the world who often defend their faith (yes it's a faith) by saying that there just hasn't been the right implementation yet and that this is the reason all communist countries were/are facist.
as for those espousing parliamentarian communism how can they prove/ensure that it won't turn out just in the same way as when Hitler came to power? (Hitler came to power through democratic elections for those who do not know). It doesn't solve the horror of the ideology when turned into practice.
btw:
- i live in Norway, one of the most socialist countries in europe (so i know how that is like)
- Norway as a state is insanely rich from oil and this is more or less the only reason we're not a 3rd world country (as we were before they struck black gold)
- i'm on the way towards disability pay (so i know how the system that's meant to be our advantage "works")
Totally off topic: Free said Communist played at swampys not so long ago and that everything was fine with him (which is nice) - just in case others who liked C haven't heard
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Sabarai
- The Former Man of Cheese
- Posts: 2383
- Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 9:00 pm
- Location: 52°09'30.24"N 5°18'48.17"
If he actually existed, which has not been proven yet, if it ever will.Lucifer wrote:I can't believe I'm saying this, but Jesus was wanted by several governments. Jesus was wanted by many, and finally executed himself.
That was in a war time, he executed Prisoners of War. Those are men who surrended already, then they were imprisoned, and then SHOT for no particular reason? Oh yeah, except they are the enemy... That would be like American soldiers in Afghanistan or Iraq shooting POW's from a distance. You know what kind of hell broke out when photo's of US soldiers having some "fun" on Iraqi POW's were released? And they didn't even shoot the Iraqi's, what if they did? US would be kicked out of Iraq by the UN or be abandoned by the rest of the world...Lucifer wrote: What people seem to forget about the American Revolutoin (yeah, I know, you're not american) is that George Washington and company snuck into the enemy camp and slaughtered numerous Germans while they were sleeping. He's a hero. Why? Because he won. Che lost, that's all.
You must know that over 15 communist countries already collapsed? You have the block of eastern Europe and of course the Sovjet Republic. Only China lives on, since they have over a billion inhabitants PLUS they allow religion in their dictature. North Korea survives as well, but not for long anymore, the NATO has put some pressure on them. If China didn't help them in the first place, it would be one Korea like South Korea. Also, China has had help from other countries, capitalist countries.Lucifer wrote: I've been wondering for some time how communism would look with a democracy, a regular freedom-loving democracy (you know, something the world really hasn't seen yet).
I think there's something better coming down the line. THere's been a lot of experimentation with different government systems this past century. Getting away from the absolute monarchies has been good, now Republic isn't so cutting-edge anymore, and so forth. I expect in another hundred years (maybe less) someone's going ot implement a system that's not quite capitalism, not quite communism, definitely not socialism, with a government on top that has most of the traits of republic, most of the traits of democracy, and pulls through on most of its promises for protecting the rights of people and so forth. Hell, maybe that's what China will get if they ever overthrow their government. It might be the US's next government. Hm?
You must also know that socialism is very close to the communism:
LEFT WING ---------------------- CENTRAL ---------------------RIGHT WING
Communism Socialism Central Democrats Liberalism Fascism
So a government with influence from the communism, capitalism and a president (communism and capitalism don't mix anyway) will always pull to the central; which is more socialism than liberalism and central democrats as I believe... So the government you are proposing is completely out of the question...