FFF time to bring it back...with epsy's blessing

[compguygene]

Ok, Joda.bot and I spent almost 2 hours chatting about what I would like to do with FFF. How epsy felt about the whole thing. I also chatted with epsy about it. I misunderstood a few things. I may have misrepresented my intentions. Let me start over with this brand new thread.

At this point, I would like to create an organization that will run two tournaments. A bi-monthly FFF tournament, and a bi-monthly Fortress for Four Teams Tournament.

Obviously, I have started this thread to discuss restarting the FFF Tournament.
Epsy has stated that he really doesn't have the time to organize and run a new FFF Tournament. He is not offended by me running with the ball to do so, and is willing to let me use the website that he setup, the settings, etc.

So, I put it to you. Do you think that we should stick with the original settings? I never played in the tournament, so I really don't know the advantages, or disadvantages.

Also, for the creation of a new organization, I am of the opinion that the simplest way for me to do this would be through the use of the Wiki and Forums here. Although I think that the website that Epsy made is very usable and friendly, I do not think that it may be the best long term solution. What do you think? Please keep in mind that I want to run the first one of these starting April 12, 2009 so we have just about a week to get things up enough to get signups going and people starting to get organized.

Another question to be considered: single or double elimination?

I am asking for your input simply because I recognize your much more vast experience. And quite frankly, I am hoping that some of you will be willing to help, in some capacity. I really think that this will very quickly grow to be much bigger than any of us might expect. The more clans and teams I talk to about it, the more requests I get about signups. This could easily be as big or bigger than the Ladle in terms of the number of teams!

[freako]

Also, for the creation of a new organization, I am of the opinion that the simplest way for me to do this would be through the use of the Wiki and Forums here. Although I think that the website that Epsy made is very usable and friendly, I do not think that it may be the best long term solution. What do you think?

Please keep the site , it's much easier to procces signups, and send-out info (instead of the wiki)

As for the forums: Discussions about tournaments always end bad at arma. I suppose the Old FFF rules were ok? so we don't even need discussing about the rules/physics?

Not enough time to write an proper response on the rest

[sinewav]

Also, for the creation of a new organization, I am of the opinion that the simplest way for me to do this would be through the use of the Wiki and Forums here.

What's with this organization crap? Why do you need a designated body for such a simple thing? Just make a wiki page for the tourney and post about it on the forums. If people sign up, great. If the don't, oh well. Seriously. The rules and setting don't vary much between Fort tourneys and it's usually never enough to deter hardcore players - and noobs don't know any better. Just pick your favorite and get on with it.

You've got, like, 6 different threads going about the same thing. How about this: as soon as you finish reading this post of mine, go make a wiki page for your tournament (be sure to write the date and times on it), then post back here saying "sign-ups are now open!" (don't forget the exclamation point, because that makes it better.)

[compguygene]

sorry about the "6 threads bs"
just trying to get this right the first time.

Freako:
I have seen discussions ending badly, but I want to hear from others anyway. The worst that can happen, is that I end up ignoring everybody's opinion. But, I firmly believe that people can contribute ideas that I would otherwise miss.

[DDMJ]

Single elimination (double takes way too long).

The FFF settings were different from the current Ladle settings so I vote for the Ladle settings but with TEAM_MAX_PLAYERS 4.

[epsy]

Just as the Ladle settings were different from Fortress settings.

Let me put this clear: I'm not going to be organizing a tournament that I'm close to hating.

[compguygene]

np epsy, i am not asking you to have anything to do with this, if you don't want to. I am very aware of your hatred for the ladle settings. It is very understandable. These choices are for merely practical reasons.
By your blessing, I am trying to make it clear to the community as a whole, that you are not offended that we are doing this, which is what my understanding is.
Your input, participation, or whatever, are always welcome. Your viewpoint is valued.

Because I am such a noob to your settings, could you explain why your settings are better? It's not that I doubt the value of them...but I would like to understand better. I have certainly not absolutely decided on the ladle settings at this time. Perhaps you could give me a short, well reasoned explanation? I just don't understand enough about the settings to just read a config file and see the differences. When i did play in servers set up with those settings, i was way to much a n00b to notice the differences. Is it just the 2v2 conquerable vs unconquerable? I just don't understand?
I would definitely use your settings, if i could just understand why I should use them. I bet you can give me a convincing argument!

As a show of good faith, if you give me any sort of valid argument, I'll set up a server, with the settings in question. And then I'll test them. Just give me a good reason, that's all I ask.

[Lackadaisical]

I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody.

Sure there has been a lot of arguments about settings, but imo this has mostly to do with people trying to be right about something, and noone willing to back down. "Wrong" settings are probably the least of you worries; when epsy wanted to have score_hole in his team sumo tournament almost noone agreed with him, but it ended up being (one of?) the most succesful tsts anyway.

[epsy]

a short, well reasoned explanation

1/ 2v2 conquerable is the default pair of settings in fortress.
2/ First FFF was long enough already, don't turn it into campfest by promoting camping. IE, camping would be much more effective(2 defenders only) than actually attacking. If you want to read more about 2v2 conquerable and my opinion about it, click the link

[compguygene]

Thank you Epsy..
Now I understand why you chose the settings you did and am beginning to make sense of them. I am putting up a server today to test them for myself!

Lackadaisical, well stated! I totally agree.

[sinewav]

I've always been on the fence about 2v2 conquerable. Lately I've been thinking it's a good idea - but I think it's an especially good idea with smaller teams.

[compguygene]

Four of us just tested out epsy's settings...I am convinced. The 2v2 conquerable rate was just right, not so fast to be ridiculous, but fast enough to keep things moving. Everything else just felt right.

So, we will definitely go with the original FFF settings.

For those of you who are curious to test these settings, you can try them out in two servers that I have set up.

For US players The Server Pharm: FFF Alpha
This server is hosted in Connecticut, US and gives reasonable pings for Euros

For Euro players The Server Pharm EU: FFF Bravo
This server is hosted in Germany and yields response similar to Z-man's