Ladle Rules

2020 · Post by **2020** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:29 am

1200 wrote: It helps but I don't think making a video is always necessary just to present an idea. But i wish people that make comments would give reasons why. Often people make statements without backing up what they say.

what the videos miss out is
1
the integration of knowledge in the individual
that is
they are constantly attempting to externalise our reasoning
as if we can potentially map out our ideas into the perfect "logical argument"
2
systems thinking
that is
design of a holistic constellation of self-supporting ideas/behaviours/elements

the suggestion of our producing videos is not to present an idea or a topic
but for someone to present a whole system or constellation of self-supporting ideas
and thus
we avoid this bit-contribution and noise and voting et al

i trust us to be able to either produce coherent systems
and/or
to be able to evaluate between alternative coherent systems

interestingly
the videos point out the main problem with eg forums and conversations:
they are organised in time
-- it's that bloody timing issue again!!!!!
hehehe

2020 · Post by **2020** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:05 pm

hmmm
guess i killed it
sorry

another consideration are the three stages
does the second one actually happen?
i don't know since i am not a captain
just wondered what the turnout was on the night
in terms of people joining the irc channel
and if not enough
do we want/need an alternative?

Concord · Post by **Concord** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:42 pm

it has become mostly unneeded since we've gotten more formal about the challenge board spots. The idea of having all the captains in a IRC room beforehand does have a certain, dare say, romanticism to it.

owned · Post by **owned** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:34 pm

Ok to reset this topic:

Do you guys want to have a 3rd place match or not? (plz only talk with this until this question is solved.)

sinewav · Post by **sinewav** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:00 pm

owned wrote:Do you guys want to have a 3rd place match or not?

I would say yes if being third guaranteed you a sweet bracket position in the following ladle. If not, then I don't think a third place match is necessary. It's not like we have a draft or anything.

owned · Post by **owned** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:55 pm

Well considering how long the seeding argument will take and that we're 2 days away from choosing spots, I guess we'll have seeding again.

Concord · Post by **Concord** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:06 am

I thought we decided we were doing it random?

I have a preference for seeding, but I thought this was already decided.

owned · Post by **owned** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:03 am

We did?

If you give proof we did, we'll do all random. If not, then it's seeding once again.

Concord · Post by **Concord** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:05 am

http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopi ... 32&start=0

1200 · Post by **1200** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:16 am

We decieded on neither like a lot of things.
Did you guys put a thought on Sinewav's idea on page 4 of this thread about deciding on tournament settings?
I only heard Corn & 2020... and if i didn't make myself clear i think Sine's idea is nice. I had a simliar idea but his is more simple.

sinewav · Post by **sinewav** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:20 am

Random. There were no votes against in that thread. I know this thread was supposed to help address the rules, but nothing came of it (except for this one idea I had which has neither shot down nor endorsed).

1200 · Post by **1200** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:06 am

Kyle Wrote:

Concord wrote:
kk sounds like we are in agreement. March 1st, 2009 random team placement.
of us who have read this topic Smile

I was thinking much the same as Kyle. I mean i'm actually inclined towards random for this Ladle but i think the system to decide it should be fair on the people who wants seeding as well. How were people supposed to know that that thread was the deciding place for the setting? I was reading the thread but i didn't know that was the case.

compguygene · Post by **compguygene** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:23 am

I'll put my two cents in.
I like random. Everyone is just as likely to have an easy or hard match the first round. I like the fact that when ur done with the ladle ur done.
It is a monthly tourney, and a big one. When it gets bigger, it might become a necessity to do seeding, to give newer teams a chance at things.
I also like the fact that random forces us all to just prepare our best!
Any team could face the team that won the last ladle. That's a good thing!
Let's say for the sake of argument that Ladle 27 was won by TR and Ladle 28 TR faced a team in the first round that was a new team. TR wins, but just barely! That team may have just notched their skillz up by such a loss! Or heaven forbid said team beats TR! It could happen!
Give me random!
I know Ww is pretty much a noob fortress team, we are ok with it!
What is the worst that will happen to us in the long run? I say the worst is that we get better!

owned · Post by **owned** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:08 am

Lol I never saw that and would've voted no.

But since you guys agreed, i'll say we have it for this ladle.

@comp How is there a bigger chance of this happening with random teams? In fact there's a bigger chance of a random new team facing the previous number 1 with seeding.

2020 · Post by **2020** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:43 pm

well
the mit boys have come back to me
and i have started to create something on deliberatorium:
http://franc2.mit.edu:8000/ci/invite?KC ... RUFERVIiKQ**

if you are interested in taking part
i can send you an author's link
and then we can all get stuck in!

the principle behind it is
it is not time dependent
which is what forums are
and hence
we can reach consensus and optimum self-organised design
wrt ladle and other tronicnesses

edit:
strange that the notion of arbitration has popped up on this forum recently
which is clearly within what we are discussing here