Change the Ladle starting time?

[Hoax]

I thought the whole idea of the ladle was that it was self organised, people (captains) taking care of themselves (teams); not pages of stonewall rules

Anyway I didn't vote since it doesn't make much difference to me (atm anyway im sure sods law will see to that ;d)

Gotta get the balance right between the eastern-most euros being up late to the americans playing too early

[owned]

I thought the whole idea of the ladle was that it was self organised, people (captains) taking care of themselves (teams); not pages of stonewall rules

Well it'll be rules self-organized by the players.

Gotta get the balance right between the eastern-most euros being up late to the americans playing too early

I think we've reached it. If we ever pass 16 players, we need to have 2 days.

[1200]

Hohohohoax Wroted:

I thought the whole idea of the ladle was that it was self organised, people (captains) taking care of themselves (teams); not pages of stonewall rules

In any tourny you need some rules. Like teams having max 8 players, the finals is best of 5 matches etc. Those are the rules i'm talking about. And we're in the amidst of deciding whether we should make seeding or randomizing the rules, admins forcing the start time of the matches the rules. When i said stone walls i really didn't mean it being in a concrete fixed way. I was just being playful but.....the rules should be flexible and change as needed.

[1200]

Epsicle Wroted:

So where are your "Rules" ?

Yea sure I can contribute to the rules.....why not but I would start at the Guidelines tho.
I think some of the clauses in the guidelines are either vague/doesn't make sense so they should be fixed. And some should be in the Rules category not in the Guidelines.

1) Only Team-captains should alter the provisional play-offs in the Challenge Room. A spot switching has to be in agreement between both teams interested.

This statement is a vague one imo. Either restrict the change of challenge board to captains only or leave it open for all. I don't see a need to restrict it in my opinion. Any abuse you can track it down and ban that guy.

2) If opponents don't turn up on time, they forfeit, unless again a team wishes to delay the start... though this causes problems for subsequent timing...

I've said what I think about this on this page.

http://forums.armagetronad.net/viewtopi ... c&start=30

The line "again a team wishes" should be changed to "both team captains agree".
Personally I support the admin forcing start of the match on time so the chance of causing delay in subsequent matches is minimized. If that happens this clause may become reduntant. Either way once decided this should go in the Rules category.

3) Regarding new players turning up: server admins can make their server private, lock it once all players are in, or kick new players immediately

I'm starting to think this is all a language barrier problem.
But anywayz change "admins can" -> "admins should"



I would go ahead and change all this but i'm not sure if its ok to change somebody else's post and discussion tab doesn't seem to exist yet...
**********************************
RULES:

I was just pointing out the fact that there are no written down Rules section on the Ladle page. I assume any proper competition should have a set of written rules.

I can round up some rules that already exist and some that i think should be in the rules and i'll put it up on my next post.

[epsy]

The guidelines ARE the rules. (nitpickthisplz)

[1200]

A Stubborn Person Wrote:

The guidelines ARE the rules. (nitpickthisplz)

You can call it nit picking if thats the way you feel but i'm only saying what i'm saying cause i feel that those changes would make it better for the comp and for people to understand. If you disagree with what i'm saying, tell me how you'd go about changing those guidelines.

There is a difference in the meaning between the guidelines and the rules.
I said this already before if you don't remember.

Guidelines is something people can look and MAY follow but is not as authoritative as the "RULES" that people
MUST follow.

[sinewav]

Guidelines is something people can look and MAY follow but is not as authoritative as the "RULES" that people
MUST follow.

I tend to agree with epsy here. I think the problem lies in word "guideline" which in common usage seems to hold less weight, or is more flexible than the word "rule" - even though they have the same general meaning. In Arma, these guidelines are usually broken with more good results than bed, such as the case of team members not showing up and random people being recruited to play. I see this as a positive since more people == more fun in a ladle, usually. But maybe we're reaching a point where this flexibility is a problem.

[1200]

@Sine

I think the problem lies in word "guideline" which in common usage seems to hold less weight, or is more flexible than the word "rule" - even though they have the same general meaning.

Sounds like you're agreeing with me. All i was saying is that the guidelines and the rules are similar but not the same. Certain things are guidelines and certain things should be in the rules.

Regarding allowing recruiting on the day of the tourny, i agree with you that it could produce good results. I'm actually all for it like i've mentioned in other threads. What i'm saying is if recruitment is allowed on the day of the tourny than it should be written in the rules. Not as a vague statements in the guidelines that people may or may not follow that may result in a debate come day of the tourny.

[sinewav]

yes.

[Corn1]

Guideline n.
a formal rule describing how a situation must be handled; --
used as a direction to administrators from superiors.

Rule n.
That which is prescribed or laid down as a guide for
conduct or action

[1200]

Ok perhaps i wasn't entirely right in saying that guidelines are not the same as the rules. I don't agree with the definition but i'm not trying to argue. My main point is Rules hold more weight than Guidelines and normally competitions have a set of rules rather than a set of guidelines.

[epsy]

Since we're already putting out the dictionaries:

nitpick (v.)

1.(informal)be overly critical; criticize minor details


nitpicking (n.)

1.(colloquial)making too fine distinctions of little importance
"they didn't take his hairsplitting seriously"


nitpicking (adj.)

1.(colloquial)quibbling over insignificant details
"None" "her nagging and carping attack" "thought her editor unnecessarily nitpicking" "a pettifogging lawyer's mind" "had no patience with quibbling critics"

Now you may notice 2020 likes to use fancy terms...it's not because it's called a ladle that we're gonna try to eat crap.

[Concord]

I've been served some wonderful food with a Ladle, epsy.

A delightful clam chowder just a week ago, kind of out of season, but it was a nice surprise.

Oh! And a delicious Italian wedding soup, just on Thursday afternoon.

[-=}ID< Vípe]

Uhm....

I voted yes, but i think the issue is between time zones. I think on reflection it may seem a little late to have a "competition" or whatever, but when considering the people from the US, having it any earlier would be unfair, especially on sunday...

We all like to have a lay in... idk though, i guess it's fine the way it is? moving it around might get rid of one problem, but i guarentee it's going to create more...

[1200]

@Epsy

Yea i'm nitpicking if you wanna call it that because the Rules/Guidelines that people read and follow should be clear and unmistakeable which i don't think is the case atm.[/list]