Newbie question

[nitus]

Hi. I've been playing AA in local mode since downloading it, and have gotten quite good at playing with low rubber.

My question is, why doesn't anyone play on servers that have low rubber? A rubber setting of 2 is enough to allow grinds, without making it possible to slam into walls with no consequences.

The game that people are playing, with higher rubber settings, is like a completely different game than the oldschool lightcycles game.

Clearly it's what people prefer, and I probably didn't have to put "newbie" in the subject line when asking a question like this.

But why?

As I've hosted the odd server, players used to higher rubber have come in - then killed themselves in dumb ways, by not having enough skill to grind without crashing - and then complained that there was no rubber!

I understand that there's a high level of skills involved in the rubber games - but good reaction time doesn't seem to be one of them.

[epsy]

bah...not every player/server likes low-rubber lms...there are some, through, like Tigers network classic play and probably many others

edit: but 2 rubber on a distant server is like 0.5 rubber on local...consider at least 4 or 5

[Tank Program]

I've actually set rubber to one on Classic Play and it's still playable, just don't expect to adjust.

[Jonathan]

You are one of the few 'newbies' to see rubber like this.

Rubber was created to compensate for network lag. If you get near a wall and turn, but the server didn't receive the turn message in time, you'd run into the wall. A small amount of rubber can save you in that case without making the game all too easy. It can also save you if a wall is unexpectedly placed in front of you, but of course you risk running into the next wall because you're already too late. When set carefully (say 4 or 5 if you want to keep players from another continent alive, but CYCLE_PING_RUBBER (rubber=CYCLE_RUBBER+ping_in_seconds*CYCLE_PING_RUBBER IIRC - be conservative because if it's adjusted purely for reaction time, they'll have an easy time grinding) can possibly be used instead) it can enhance the game somewhat.

Don't ask me why some people turn it up insanely high.

[nitus]

I've played on a number of of ad-hoc servers where it was set to 1, and nobody was having a problem grinding or making tight corners once they got used to the server. It is possible to get bumped and retroactively terminated in some situations, but even with higher rubber that's going to happen.

I did find a server where it was set to 4, but even at a 150 ping it seemed to give me eons of hang time. The next highest up I've found was at 8, which was way too much for me. Someone would have to be pinging from the moon to need that much time.

It seems to create a very different kind of gameplay, where you can pull off a lot of moves that you wouldn't be able to do if a collision killed you. The bulk of players seems to prefer it that way, for reasons that aren't readily apparent to me.

I do manage to find some games every day, so I can't complain. I haven't tried all of the dedicated servers yet, so I guess I should before I do.

[Fonkay]

Try Shrunkland It's my home when it comes to arma. Low rubber, and an inability to db on walls, for those who don't like it. It's not always full, but there's usually someone in there. But I like being in a room that isn't too crowded, maybe you don't feel that way. Who knows. Anyhow, just a suggestion.

[Lucifer]

http://wiki.armagetronad.net/index.php/Rubber

@Jonathan: I'll bet there are a lot of players that are new that find rubber like this, they're just hidden. Think of nitus as the tip of the iceberg, and the smegheads that come over and try to tell us that we suck because we prefer the little legos are just the loud ones.

[Jonathan]

You are one of the few 'newbies' to see rubber like this.

"one of the few 'newbies' that come over here and question high rubber"

[newbie]

My question is, why doesn't anyone play on servers that have low rubber? A rubber setting of 2 is enough to allow grinds, without making it possible to slam into walls with no consequences.

current fortress settings are close to the best, rubber a lot lower than 5 hurts the gameplay more than it helps and does not have much to do with skills

it just makes AA more straightforward, because who does not like tight mazing?

however you probably do not like when people survive by grinding between your and any other wall while they were supposed to crash; this can be solved by cycle_width

anyway visit bugfram, it's always good to use as little rubber as possible or even it is important to do so. you can test there how much your reaction time helps you to play against other players

[~*PsYkO*~]

newbie?

[ed]

PsYkO?

[Ricochet]

ed?

[nitus]

I'll bet there are a lot of players that are new that find rubber like this, they're just hidden. Think of nitus as the tip of the iceberg

This is probably true. Most new players are going to play local games first, and when they get online and discover that collisions don't kill people, there's bound to be some head scratching.

you probably do not like when people survive by grinding between your and any other wall while they were supposed to crash

I do not like it when I can slam into a wall, say "one one-thousand", and then do a u-turn. This is true even at 4, on Tiger's Network Classic Play. Collisions are more or less impossible.

I have a fairly high ping to that server, like I do to most servers, and it's still high enough for me to clip and buff my nails after I hit a wall, before turning.

The argument that it's necessary for network play just doesn't wash. The truth is that players simply prefer it that way, where collisions are impossible, and the only way to dump and opponent is by putting him into a tight, confusing maze.

Hey, whatever floats your boat, but at least be honest about it. You like it that way.

I happen to like it when collisions actually kill players. Go figure.


I can't imagine that rubber was intended to make collisions impossible. My guess would be that at some point in the past the netcode wasn't as good, or the rubber settings worked differently, and players became used to the anti-collision gameplay - and now the bulk of the community won't play on servers where collisions happen easily.

In effect, it's become a completely different game than it was intended to be. That ought to strike any newb as somewhat unusual - that the accidental gameplay became more popular than the intended gameplay.

[Jonathan]

I have a fairly high ping to that server, like I do to most servers, and it's still high enough for me to clip and buff my nails after I hit a wall, before turning.

The argument that it's necessary for network play just doesn't wash. The truth is that players simply prefer it that way, where collisions are impossible, and the only way to dump and opponent is by putting him into a tight, confusing maze.

Hey, whatever floats your boat, but at least be honest about it. You like it that way.

Of course I didn't say 4-5 would be right for all circumstances. Say, in a local game I find that 0 works quite well, although the bots keep running into walls for no apparent reason (you could say they lack skill, but it's even more boring). If the connection is reliable low can work out. If it's unreliable I can die by running into walls I was aware of and avoiding, as long as rubber isn't insane. In between a rubber setting of 5 can work better than often inexplicably running into walls. Note that it also depends on overall speed and other rubber-related settings: if it's not time-based and you're generally moving at 10 units/s, it's way too much.

I can't imagine that rubber was intended to make collisions impossible. My guess would be that at some point in the past the netcode wasn't as good, or the rubber settings worked differently,

That was the case. It used to be much harder to grind reliably, but it could be done pretty well. Once it was 'fixed' the game changed quite noticeably. Some additional settings that make it hard or impossible to pull of crazy things have been introduced since, but many people liked the new style.

BTW, I haven't played the game in a while. I stopped before truly insane rubber became very popular, at the dawn of Fortress (not because of it; just lost interest).

[Lucifer]

Well, there's a couple of things here. First, rubber is to account for network latency (read the wiki page I linked!). That's why it's there, and other uses of it are just abuses.

Second, you're right that players abuse it. Around here you'll find a somewhat prevalent attitude (or at least loudly spoken) that lower rubber == better game, and that folks who restrict themselves to high rubber are probably the same people that wear helmets when they walk to school and give their lunch money to their worst enemy.

Finally, there's another component of rubber you may not be aware of. That's cycle_ping_rubber. It's a bonus high ping players get. Cycle_rubber is supposed to account for the amount of network latency everyone has, and cycle_ping_rubber is supposed to account for added network latency that comes with having a higher ping than the folks you're playing with.