Maps [for the lack of a better word]

philippeqc · Post by **philippeqc** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:59 am

Hi,

I would like to contribute to the "map" part of armagetron advance. I'm posting this so I could check who is in charge of this development so I dont go around stepping on ppl toes. I'd be more than interested to know of your plans for that part, and maybe even contribute a few ideas of my own.

philippeqc

Sesquipedalophobia- Fear of long words.

Post by **Tank Program** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:16 pm

We've been definetely thinking about this. We'd love to see different shaped arenas. But as far as I know, we really haven't done any works on it. And I do think you mean arenas instead of maps. The place we play in correct? The big square...

philippeqc · Post by **philippeqc** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 2:47 pm

Tank Program wrote:We've been definetely thinking about this. We'd love to see different shaped arenas. But as far as I know, we really haven't done any works on it. And I do think you mean arenas instead of maps. The place we play in correct? The big square...

Yes you are, I want to reshape the arena (no puns intended). The big square shaped will always be there, but some other shape too.

About the word maps. Well, its my fault. I wasnt clear. To support different shaped arenas, I figure it need a set of data/structure to describe them, hence the map. It really wasnt clear. Sorry.

I've already found some reference about overpass and underpass on the site. Are there other ideas floating around I should be aware of?

philippe

Post by **Tank Program** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 3:48 pm

I don't know. There maybe, but it probably doesn't matter. If you can come up with a way to make this work, we'd be more then happy to incorparate it into the game.

klax · Post by **klax** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 5:06 pm

I also thought about doing some new shaped arenas (triangle, hexagon, ...).
I was thinking about doing general regular polygon shaped arenas, and only indicating the number of sides describing an arena.

But I think these arenas shapes require quite a lot of new code (detecting when you are outside the new arena and new render code to draw to new arenas (doing 3 walls, 6 walls, etc..)).

Another idea it came to my mind was seeing how the new deathzones work. We could make it new square permanent deathzones that are rendered just above the grid (in contact with the grid and rendered transparent). Like a transparent miniwall. We could make it just show one newdeathzone or a lot in the same arena doing some new funny arenas like these done with paint LOL. I think the work of doing this kind of arenas will be a lot easier than doing regular polygon arenas:

Zapple · Post by **Zapple** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 5:37 pm

philippeqc · Post by **philippeqc** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 7:34 pm

klax wrote:I also thought about doing some new shaped arenas (triangle, hexagon, ...).
I was thinking about doing general regular polygon shaped arenas, and only indicating the number of sides describing an arena.

But I think these arenas shapes require quite a lot of new code (detecting when you are outside the new arena and new render code to draw to new arenas (doing 3 walls, 6 walls, etc..)).

My short goal aim is to support 2 g-r-i-d* of different size set side by side (such as square A beside square B, twice as big as square A). The segment shared between the g-r-i-d-s would allow you to pass from one to the other without any visible transition. Any segments not connected to another g-r-i-d is a rim wall.

From that point on, I'd go to suppor any number of square g-r-i-d elements. That would allow to describe many interesting arenas.

Passed that point, I'll add triangular g-r-i-d-s. With triangles, you can describe any shapes, such as the regular polygons klax proposed.

But I'm always open to suggestions.

* Sorry, I couldnt write g-r-i-d (no -), the forum replace it with grid.

philippeqc · Post by **philippeqc** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 7:41 pm

klax wrote: Another idea it came to my mind was seeing how the new deathzones work. We could make it new square permanent deathzones that are rendered just above the awesome empowering grid (in contact with the awesome empowering grid and rendered transparent). Like a transparent miniwall. We could make it just show one newdeathzone or a lot in the same arena doing some new funny arenas like these done with paint LOL. I think the work of doing this kind of arenas will be a lot easier than doing regular polygon arenas:

Now that I understood that g-r-i-d was replaced by grid in every post, I was able to re-read your second part and understand better your idea.

In my proposed model (buch of g-r-i-d-s glued togheter), you can get the same effect. Well, I havent planned how to render the walls, so the look may be different (your idea has transparent "death block", mine is still undefined), but the playable zone will be the same.

Now if only the misteries of eHalfEdge::DrawLine could be resolved to my mind...

Post by **Tank Program** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 7:54 pm

philippeqc wrote:My short goal aim is to support 2 g-r-i-d* of different size set side by side (such as square A beside square B, twice as big as square A). The segment shared between the g-r-i-d-s would allow you to pass from one to the other without any visible transition. Any segments not connected to another g-r-i-d is a rim wall.

That sounds good!

klax · Post by **klax** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 8:09 pm

I like your idea of joining two arenas in one making a rectangular arena (or with more arenas another shapes). Ideas like these would make armagetron advanced more advanced

I don't know why but I believe this idea is harder to code than the polygon shaped arenas. What do you think?

A bit offtopic: Your idea is the basic one for game level development

. Here is a techie joke about his:

philippeqc · Post by **philippeqc** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 8:57 pm

klax wrote:I like your idea of joining two arenas in one making a rectangular arena (or with more arenas another shapes). Ideas like these would make armagetron advanced more advanced

I don't know why but I believe this idea is harder to code than the polygon shaped arenas. What do you think?

A bit offtopic: Your idea is the basic one for game level development . Here is a techie joke about his:

Good to see entousiasm around my idea. Keeps me motivated!

About polygon shaped arena, yes, you are probably right. Support for one (not necessary regular) polygon should be easier to hack. I'm trying that at the moment, but I get some very strange effects such as bikes pushing invisible walls.

For my idea, I have probably to support multiple grids, and make the object transition between them. But hey, I'm having fun. Head banging on the wall kind of fun, but still fun.

I just see that in the long run, multi-grids would have more benefits (hopefully) such as:
- collision check: you only need to check vs object on the same g-r-i-d as you
- no need for "features". in a polygonal system, if you need a "empty" area in your shape, you need to define and code a new element. Then if you want an "island" inside of the "empty" arena, a new hack is required. I hope by dealing with segments, it allows various shapes without touching the engine past the first investment.

Anyway, I'm still banging my head to understand the code, so my talk is cheap.

che · Post by **che** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 9:29 pm

cool
just one stupid question from third world
how would that efect size and speed of packages send?
tron is meaningless at home, spars its magic only on net imo, and most ppl here is still on 54k dial-ups
keep us in mind please

Zapple · Post by **Zapple** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 9:36 pm

cool pic klax. Thats not a bad idea eaither

philippeqc · Post by **philippeqc** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 9:44 pm

che wrote:cool
just one stupid question from third world
how would that efect size and speed of packages send?
tron is meaningless at home, spars its magic only on net imo, and most ppl here is still on 54k dial-ups
keep us in mind please

Hummm,

It is hard to anser about this as there are more unknows than I'd like.

What ever the implementation, you will need to get the "arena definition". How and when, I dont know. I goes from "some files you download from the web" to "the server send the description before any match". I cant say which. My _IDEAL_ way would be that if a player doesnt already have an arena definition, the server sends it before starting a game needing it. I'd welcome anyone writing this.

Other than that, I dont see why more data should be sent during the game. I mean, if the arena is a square or a Mickey Mouse, it shouldnt affect the size of packets by much. Maybe they will have to be slighlty bigger (1 int ie 4 bytes, for the ID of the g-r-i-d) so that beside your position (x,y), it also say which g-r-i-d (Mickey's left ear) you are on.

In short, I cant say anything, but I'll keep an open eye for this.

philippeqc · Post by **philippeqc** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 1:45 pm

klax wrote:I also thought about doing some new shaped arenas (triangle, hexagon, ...).
I was thinking about doing general regular polygon shaped arenas, and only indicating the number of sides describing an arena.

Just to give a quick update of my progress.

I've been stuck for a while with "everybody dies at the beginning of the game" situation with my weird shaped arenas.

Remembering klax suggestion, I tried "regular polygon" shape. Hexagonal and Octogonal arenas work. The bots dont like them much, avoid only sometime the angled walls, but other than that, it's really neat. It was good to have a small succes, so I wanted to thanks klax for the inspiration.

Unless someone is on his/her deathbed and absolutely need to play a game inside a "regular polygon", I'll keep working on it to fix the "instant death at start" problem and provide a better patch for AA.

-ph