3 vs 3 double grinding possible?

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DDMJ
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3 vs 3 double grinding possible?

Post by DDMJ »

If you guys have played fortress you probably know the thing that Zop and now serveral people do to get a lot of speed. If they are next to the center, they go a bit with out grinding, double back, then double back again.(essentially double grinding the center) This shoots them thru, in between the grinds of the center and either the #4 person or #5 person. This cannot be achieved, however, if there are only 3 people on a team as there is no one on the other side of the people next to the center, thus not being able to gain as much speed.

Well, I was experimenting today and found that there is a way that you can gain a lot of speep with only 3 players on your team. Lets say that you are to the left of the center in the #2 position. What you do is go about half-way to the end of the zone (from where you started (which is in the middle of the zone...so about 3/4 to the end of the zone)) and double back past the tail of the center. Most defenders would block the middle like this, and you actually are doing so. Then, if you do it soon enough (brake could be used, but not recommended) double back towards the center of the grid. You should now be inbetween the center and the person to the right of him/her (#3 spot). But, just shortly ahead is when the #3 person begain his/her grind. Now you can do a normal double grind to get past his and the result...SUPER SPEED!!! This might seem complicated, but it is definately worth it in a 3 vs 3 game. (It could also be uselful just in general, as the goalie doesn't have to block the middle.)

In case you got confused, here are the simple key manuevers:

From #2 spot: double back to the right, double back to the left, double back to the left again, finnally double back to the right (the last 2 steps are the same as normal double grinding).

From #3 spot: double back to the left, double back to the right, double back to the right again, finnally double back to the left (the last 2 steps are again the same as normal double grinding).

Try it out. It was hard for me to get at first, but it's pretty cool and useful.

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2020
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Post by 2020 »

how does it compare to grinding the hell out of the middle person
they brake just a tad at the beginning so they end up between your walls
and they end up with amazing speed?
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Post by DDMJ »

2020 wrote:how does it compare to grinding the hell out of the middle person
they brake just a tad at the beginning so they end up between your walls
and they end up with amazing speed?
No, I know what you're saying, but that does not get at all as much speed as this. That may get you 50 tops then you have to break. This gets you well over 60 & sometimes to 70 if executed correctly. You will know what I mean when you do it.

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Van-hayes
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Post by Van-hayes »

In this move who is defense? Because if either the middle or the non DGer defend, wouldn't that stop this from working?
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Post by DDMJ »

It's very simple. If the person to the left of center (#2 spot) does this move, then they will end up splitting wide to the right, completely blocking anyone from the other team to come thru that side. The #3 person then turns around and goes to the zone to leisurely setup the defense :D

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Re: 3 vs 3 double grinding possible?

Post by Sedaloga »

Hello I’m Kevin nice to meet you
Last edited by Z-Man on Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Hello I'm a spambot (posts locked to prevent future stealth edits, no edit)

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Ratchet
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Re: 3 vs 3 double grinding possible?

Post by Ratchet »

*reviving old topic cuz of spambot*

it's interesting to see how revolutionary Durka's finding was to him at the time, lol. now this is something that everyone knows and applies.
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[Anonymous]
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Re: 3 vs 3 double grinding possible?

Post by [Anonymous] »

Haha spam bot, pretty sick

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2020
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Re: 3 vs 3 double grinding possible?

Post by 2020 »

Email triggered by spambot, like being served an affidavit from an AI. Formally summoned to Arma. To face the consequences of the law, the law of the grid.

I remember I took playing pretty seriously, playing regularly, especially the deeper aspects of teamwork. Instead of arguing about things, we played it out on the grid. I associated it with the power that football has in uniting the world, as the Olympics does, and how it did in ancient times and actually unified Hellenic warring states temporarally as "Greece". Games, teamwork, have a powerful effect on us.

I was not particularly skilful, but loved strategy, even though it didn't evolve much. Has Fort strategy changed over the last decade? At the team level? There certainly was potential-- Team Plus tried, I remember, but we were up against teams with more skilful players. Skill level at the Ladles was extreme...

There certainly was an opportunity, maybe there still is? Or maybe the game has a limited level of strategy? Almost like football, soccer? I have always been interested in the question -- can a team of inferior players win? That is, embody the proof of teamwork, of trust?

I will check up on posts, and will experience being totally outclassed on the grid. Perhaps the community has managed to take the game to a higher level of game-play? Or did it plateau? I look forward to experiencing the current state of play... Without any more spambots involved, AI or otherwise.
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Re: 3 vs 3 double grinding possible?

Post by bilbo baggins »

this interests me also, there have been various strategical moves by teams in one ladle or another, but the meta has been established and most teams nowadays do generally the same thing. There are some interesting strategies from some teams but when it goes down in flames no one really tries to persist with them and just goes back to the norm. I believe to shake up the game now, we need a change in physics/gameplay to completely deter people from playing the "outlive then hole" which most teams play. Different teams still play different styles though. The teams with high individual skill level players tend to be aggressive and hunt you down like possessed animals whereas teams with less star players need to be more savvy and tend to be more passive.

Teams that have better teamwork sometimes beat the superstars. Although the last standout example of this is a while back where RoadrunnerZ won the ladle having previously performed averagely and none of there players had ever won a ladle. This brought about new enthusiasm and drive for mid to bottom tier teams to try harder.

When did you stop playing 2020. Because i remember playing with you a looonnngg time ago. Fortress and tron as a whole is starting to dwindle. Hopefully its a dry patch and activity will pick up again very soon. You should get some oldies together and bring back plus to show that the old ways are best ;) :D

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Re: 3 vs 3 double grinding possible?

Post by 2020 »

A couple of observations there Bilbo, and different suggestions.

The natural evolution as I saw it would be to reduce rubber as ping reduced. Mostly a technical consequence. I also thought it would evolve towards incam. That is aa collective decision based on individual courage. I only could ever see that happening when we have more than eg 10,000 players. With mass numbers, there will always be a smaller set that take the harder, perhaps purist, path. Strategy, with incam, is much harder to orchestrate, and potentially opens up the space for new configurations which the wider views inhibit. Strange as it may sound, constraining the individual may increase the team play.

I acknowledged when I briefly returned, just visiting, that there was a great divide, a gap in the skill level, which differentiated regular Fort players from new players. This set the pro's well above the rest, and effectively meant a bounded group of regular players. Breaking in to this is next to impossible. The dedication required, the hours one has to put in on the grid, is not inconsiderable. This greatly reduces the uptake of the Fort adoption, socially, despite it being such an incredible intense attractor to us as players. Glad RoadRunnerZ broke it.

So, there may be issues, but certainly nothing that can not be overcome. It is like tinkering with a bike, or a car, to get it to perform a bit better, out adding a turbo or supercharger. What may be needed is the social equivalent of a supercharger. We get 10k players, 100k or 1mm why not?, then there is no chance for stagnancy, and the game will evolve naturally, both in terms of player skill and more importantly in terms of team strategy.

Or perhaps the game is flawed? It simply has a limit, as I suggested earlier? I for one am still intrigued by pushing the boundary of what this game is capable of. I LOVED it. And the family I play it with do too. There may still be plenty of potential, that's for sure.
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