Map forum?

[Lucifer]

Tank, can we have a map forum? In that forum we should have two stickies, one where we can list map making resources and one where people can upload maps generally for anybody, and also a link to the newest version of Philippe's tutorial.

[Tank Program]

interesting idea.

[Jonathan]

And two maps, a "good" one showing everything that's officially allowed, and a "bad" one showing stuff not allowed? (even if it works) For example:

Code: Select all

<Wall><Point x="10" y="0"/><Point x="20" y="0"/><RestorePos/><Point x="-10" y="0"/><Point x="-20" y="0"/></Wall>

It would help map creators and parser creators.

[philippeqc]

I'm defenitively backing this idea. Should it be map only, or for all ressources (models, skins, moviepack, etc).

I'd also appreciate that such a forum not be placed under development. I fear that the association between development and programming might rebute a few who could have found themself a vocation as map designers or moviepack makers.

And two maps, a "good" one showing everything that's officially allowed, and a "bad" one showing stuff not allowed? (even if it works) For example:

Code: Select all

<Wall><Point x="10" y="0"/><Point x="20" y="0"/><RestorePos/><Point x="-10" y="0"/><Point x="-20" y="0"/></Wall>

It would help map creators and parser creators.

Jonathan, could I interest you in your own idea? You may offer a better perspective on this as you did develop an independant parser, which assume that you have a firm grip on the notions and difficulties involved. I feel that as I've developed both the concept, the dtd and the tutorial, some items start to be very obvious in my eyes.

-ph

[Jonathan]

Jonathan, could I interest you in your own idea? You may offer a better perspective on this as you did develop an independant parser,

Make that a writer, although less than 24 hours ago I attempted to write a parser based on Armagetron's code (since I'm not familiar with libxml). That got me wondering if a parser should parse

Code: Select all

<Wall><Point x="10" y="0"/><Point x="20" y="0"/><RestorePos/><Point x="-10" y="0"/><Point x="-20" y="0"/></Wall>

with the same results as

Code: Select all

<Wall><Point x="10" y="0"/><Point x="20" y="0"/></Wall><Wall><Point x="-10" y="0"/><Point x="-20" y="0"/></Wall>

, or maybe not at all (even though it works in Armagetron).

[philippeqc]

Jonathan, could I interest you in your own idea? You may offer a better perspective on this as you did develop an independant parser,

Make that a writer,

Any volunteers?

although less than 24 hours ago I attempted to write a parser based on Armagetron's code (since I'm not familiar with libxml). That got me wondering if a parser should parse

Code: Select all

<Wall><Point x="10" y="0"/><Point x="20" y="0"/><RestorePos/><Point x="-10" y="0"/><Point x="-20" y="0"/></Wall>

with the same results as

Code: Select all

<Wall><Point x="10" y="0"/><Point x="20" y="0"/></Wall><Wall><Point x="-10" y="0"/><Point x="-20" y="0"/></Wall>

, or maybe not at all (even though it works in Armagetron).

You seem to be lacking a SavePos in the first example, so I dont know the value to pop out of RestorePos.

I have to confess, to the risk of sounding biased on all things originating from Luke-Jr, that I'm not strong on the idea of the SavePos RestorePos. I would like to point that a full analisys should only be done with Luke's arguments, as I'm not able to defend the idea on his part.

I'm not very warm on the idea of keywords that amount to some substitutes for cut and paste by the author of a map. While I know that a need for such convenience exist, I feel that they can only be introduced after some maturation of the format, where the items where such capacity have been identified by usage. At the moment they feel rushed and a bit ackward for me.

As for the SavePos RestorePos, I dont know if a single register model is the best tool for the job. I dont even know if multiple registers would be better. So many other alternatives are available and should be fully studied.

One aspect that must affect my judgment in the matter is that I prefer a small but complete expression versus a convenient but limited one. A quick example, while the Rectangle keyword is practical if that is what one desires to express, it doesnt support tilted boxes. On the other hand, wall might be crude, but there are no shapes that it cannot support (excluding curves).

I feel that my value for the comunity is higher when I'm able to provide functionality (such as the Zone, or multiple fields) rather than to provide convenience.

When Jonathan announced his code generator, I saw an opportunity that never materialised itself. I imagined on one side a very flexible language, one free to offer convenience for map developers, and at the output of the code generator, the harsh format that I've specified. This had the potential of allowing me to focus on functionallity without ever worriying about convenience.

The diferent tools appearing concerning maps, such as Jonathan's map previewer and Lucifer can be see as sign that the community would like more convenience, but that at the same time, they expect, or maybe are just ready to accept, that it comes from outside element.

Should someone feel that I'm attacking Luke-Jr in some fashion, let me state the following: without his direct and hard involvement, map validation, a topic that he still oppose, was condemned to perish quickly in the face of conflicts between many different version of libxml. For me this speaks loudly of his character.

-ph

[Jonathan]

although less than 24 hours ago I attempted to write a parser based on Armagetron's code (since I'm not familiar with libxml). That got me wondering if a parser should parse

Code: Select all

<Wall><Point x="10" y="0"/><Point x="20" y="0"/><RestorePos/><Point x="-10" y="0"/><Point x="-20" y="0"/></Wall>

with the same results as

Code: Select all

<Wall><Point x="10" y="0"/><Point x="20" y="0"/></Wall><Wall><Point x="-10" y="0"/><Point x="-20" y="0"/></Wall>

, or maybe not at all (even though it works in Armagetron).

You seem to be lacking a SavePos in the first example, so I dont know the value to pop out of RestorePos.

I've seen the code. It starts a new wall (same if you SavePos before Point). But the point is, is this officially supported ("because the game does it") and should any parser accept it?

When Jonathan announced his code generator, I saw an opportunity that never materialised itself. I imagined on one side a very flexible language, one free to offer convenience for map developers, and at the output of the code generator, the harsh format that I've specified. This had the potential of allowing me to focus on functionallity without ever worriying about convenience.

The state in which I left it is a bit of Java code where you do something like:

Code: Select all

$ java generator customclass file
arg string (may be empty)
[runs a method in customclass]
arg string
[runs a method in customclass, which may have changed]
quit

customclass can focus on map creation, while my code takes care of storing it. The user (who needs to know a bit of Java) does:
- Start the generator and give it the name and path of the class.
- Code something.
- Compile.
- Hit enter in the generator.
- Change the code.
- Compile.
- Hit enter in the generator.
It sends the output to both stdout and the output file.

It doesn't have perfect XML generation (in particular it replaces only a few characters that interfere with the syntax, and only in attribute values), but it's tab indented.

Jonathan's map previewer

It's nemo's.

[TiTnAsS]

If we did have a sticky for maps made by people, could we possibly have it so when they submitted it, it dosnt get entered immeidietly? I'd rather it go to tank or someone in PM for them to look over and make sure its only a MAP with a MAP DESCRIPTION and thats all, no extra chat, to avoid swimming through posts for maps...... The convos on them could be in different posts, mabye even at the end of each week tank hits the 7 days or less posts and goes through em and grabs the downloads and adds em to the locked sticky.....?

[Lucifer]

THat's what moderators are for. I haven't yet had to, but if someone posts regular conversation in the sticky for Crack Pipe maps I'll delete it. (says so in the first post)

[SuPeRTaRD]

i kinda think the sticky map & discussion thread should be in graphical enhancements.. it'd be easy to miss where it is now.

[philippeqc]

Tank we need the following root forums:
German
French
Spanish
Resources (or MultiMedia or expansion or extention or fun stuff or something similar)


Under Resources, we would need the following forums
Maps
Textures
(Movie|Original)Pack (I think MoviePack would be sufficent as a name)
Scripts (ok, it IS a bit early, but it will come)

Resources and it's sub forums is to have a common place for people who dont really care if the engine is made from C++ or bubblegum, but would be interested in all the complementary material to the game.

-ph

[Tank Program]

Yes, I know... There's just a matter of getting the steam to do it. I'm sometimes, well, most times, terribly lazy...

[TiTnAsS]

Most everything needs to be updated..and redone. We should decide how we want it i this thread then let tank or someone else get to it...

It might make things easier?

[Tank Program]

Most everything needs to be updated..and redone.

How so?

[TiTnAsS]

Most everything needs to be updated..and redone.

How so?

This was more of an IMO statement...
I think we need some more settings, to clean out the dead links and get some new ones, update the dev list and stuff...blah blah blah..
Didn't mean to insult you if i did im happy with the forum how it is now if you dont feel like it.. one of the few forums without flame/spam 24/7...