Car problems

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Lucifer
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Car problems

Post by Lucifer »

Ok, since my wife won't talk about car stuff (she says it sounds like "car blah blah", heh), I'll try here. Here's what her car is doing:

It had an intermittent misfire when she bought it four years ago, but the misfire would go away. It started to happen only when it was really cold and humid, and when we moved back to Texas, that meant we got the intermittent misfire once a year. So, nothing to worry about.

Couple weeks before Christmas, the misfire came back and stayed. Thinking it was still going to be intermittent, I didn't worry about it. On a whim right before new years, I went ahead and did the coil pack (96 ford taurus, v6, one coil pack for every cylinder, but no distributor). Because, you know, I'd already diagnosed the intermittent misfire as being a coil pack going out, so when the misfire became permanent, I replaced the Known Bad Part first.

That didn't fix it.

So I figured the spark plugs that were misfiring probably got fuel-fouled, or oil-fouled, or both. Not in a hurry to pull the plugs (the three on bank one are a PITA, being near the firewall and all), I threw a $4 bottle of fuel injector cleaner (aka snake oil) at it to see if it would clean up the spark plugs. A few miles later, it got worse.

Then the cat caught on fire. :( I got the fire out without any real damage, at least not visible damage. Right before the cat caught on fire, the car started backfiring and lost all power. So now it's accelerating like grandma. Obviously the cat caught on fire because it overheated with all this unburnt gas being blown into it. I hollowed out the cat after that, so it won't catch fire again.

The fire took out the O2 sensor that was right over it, so I replaced that, replaced the plugs, etc. The plug marked by the ECU as misfiring was white (like pre-ignition white, or fuel-fouled). The other five were all black, like oil-fouled black, or carbon build-up black. The new spark plugs worked a lot more than the old ones, so it's backfiring like a MF now, but no more misfire (I fixed that!).

So I sprayed my soapy water looking for a vacuum leak, no luck. A vacuum leak that caused this problem would have to be huge. Still haven't ruled out the MAF sensor, but I'm not getting a code for it.

I did the cheap check of fuel pressure by pushing the schrader valve on the injector rail and got very little. So I just replaced the fuel filter (regular maintenance that I haven't done) on the reasoning that it probably needed one anyway, and the snake oil might have tore up the old filter and clogged it. I unhooked the front line first, the one that would be on the opposite side of the proverbial clog from the fuel pump, and got the regular explosion of gas you expect in a pressurized line. Naturally, this didn't fix it, and it's currently showing a possible line clog between the fuel filter and the fuel injector rails. Since there are rubber fuel lines that were near the fire, that would point in that direction. But the catch is I don't have a fuel pressure tester just yet (I'm going to order one, but it'll probably be next month), at least not one that can test a fuel injection system.

Ok, so, symptoms:
  • Accelerates, but no power.
  • Power fluctuates at various points (20mph gets a jump, again at 35)
  • Backfiring through the exhaust.
  • Engine codes: p0402 (EGR valve open too much), p0302 (cylinder 2 misfire, should be fixed but I haven't cleared the codes yet), p0174 (Bank 2 lean), and I think that's it. I'll be clearing the codes tonight and seeing what new ones appear.
  • Fluctuating idle, leading to stalling at idle
  • Near stalling during the weak spots in the acceleration curve
Possibilities I'm already aware of:
  • Huge vacuum leak I still haven't found (heh)
  • Bad MAF sensor, but no code for it.
  • Bad fuel pump
  • Clogged fuel line
  • Bad fuel pressure regulator
As to the EGR code, I can't think of a way a bad EGR valve by itself can cause all of these symptoms, but I suppose I could test that by blocking the vacuum line to it (then there's the DPFE, which is a known weak spot on Fords).

So, my current working theory is that there isn't enough fuel hitting the fuel injector rail, so the computer is overcorrecting by opening the injectors longer than it should, leading to the occasional backfires, but otherwise running lean, although I don't have a reason why the bank one sensor isn't also reporting a lean condition.

Any other ideas? ;)
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kyle
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Re: Car problems

Post by kyle »

After what you listed and knowing that car, bad fuel pump would be my first bet, I've seen it start to go bad (replaces mainly because the gas gauge stopped working) in a 96 Taurus but the car had the following issues that also were resolved after doing that. Intermittent loss of power staring, cabin lights blinking, power locks unlocking / relocking. I think headlights also were blinking randomly too. Probably a few other things I forget now, so it's not too far a a stretch for that to cause what you are saying.
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Re: Car problems

Post by ConVicT »

I read like a tiny bit cuz I'm busy and my first thought was "get a MOT test early" lol.

If I said to you: I want your opinion on this: "I have bad shits, sickness, and a high temprature"
Surely your advice would be: "go see a doctor"?
Same thing.
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Re: Car problems

Post by Lucifer »

Heh, Convict. I'm in Texas, no such test. We have an emissions test here in the Austin area, but that won't be so revealing. The auto parts store's scanner is code only, and to really troubleshoot, I need to go to a friend's shop and use his scanner, which will give me a live datastream. Or buy a bluetooth OBD-II adapter and use my android tablet. If I could get a fuel pressure reading from that, I'd probably do that instead of worrying about getting a gauge, but there's no fuel pressure sensor on this car.

Anyway, definitely the fuel system is the place to be focused, I've decided. After changing the fuel filter and putting about 6 gallons of gas in it (on a gas light), the car improved a bit. Maybe that $4 bottle of snake oil wasn't just a gamble on it doing nothing, but instead it's done damage. If that's the case, then hopefully driving it with the new gas in it will clear it out.

But for my situation, Kyle, I can't diagnose the fuel pump unless I can measure pressure behind the fuel filter. There is the possibility of clogged lines, and what I observed today points away from the fuel pump and to the lines instead. But I'm definitely looking at it.

I have a plan, though. I'm going to barter a 92 Maxima from a friend that only needs a belt and maybe a tensioner, so we'll have reliable transportation soon and I'll be safe to let the Taurus sit while I figure it out.

I left out an important symptom: at low engine speeds, I lose power brakes. Means the engine isn't developing vacuum correctly, and THAT can be internal damage (rings, valve seals, actual valves, timing chain jump, etc). But it could also be because of an extreme lean situation, so the fuel system is definitely where I need to be looking.
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Re: Car problems

Post by Lucifer »

ConVicT wrote:I read like a tiny bit cuz I'm busy and my first thought was "get a MOT test early" lol.

If I said to you: I want your opinion on this: "I have bad shits, sickness, and a high temprature"
Surely your advice would be: "go see a doctor"?
Same thing.
Um, I'm the guy you'd be taking your car to. Just spent 3.5 years working for Meineke, and I'd logged four years in the business before I ever found arma.
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Re: Car problems

Post by Light »

Lucifer wrote:Or buy a bluetooth OBD-II adapter and use my android tablet.
I was gonna suggest this. They're quite cheap on ebay. ($3.19 + free shipping below)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Mini-OBD2 ... 14&vxp=mtr

I guess I should note that they're usually only that cheap from China / Hong Kong, but you get the choice of waiting 2 weeks or spending an extra $5. That thing is always with me, even though I've had to use it on my gf's car way more than mine. It's also very useful when purchasing used cars as it'll give you a tad bit more information without just taking their word for it.
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Re: Car problems

Post by Lucifer »

Light wrote:
Lucifer wrote:Or buy a bluetooth OBD-II adapter and use my android tablet.
I was gonna suggest this. They're quite cheap on ebay. ($3.19 + free shipping below)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Mini-OBD2 ... 14&vxp=mtr

I guess I should note that they're usually only that cheap from China / Hong Kong, but you get the choice of waiting 2 weeks or spending an extra $5. That thing is always with me, even though I've had to use it on my gf's car way more than mine. It's also very useful when purchasing used cars as it'll give you a tad bit more information without just taking their word for it.
Crap. Android 5.1 here, and they say it only works with 4.0-4.3. My old phone, haha.

I found adapters in the $30-$40 range on Amazon. Maybe I should check eBay. But that's a price that competes with getting a fuel pressure tester, which I obviously need to do more troubleshooting.
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Re: Car problems

Post by Light »

Lucifer wrote:Crap. Android 5.1 here, and they say it only works with 4.0-4.3. My old phone, haha.

I found adapters in the $30-$40 range on Amazon. Maybe I should check eBay. But that's a price that competes with getting a fuel pressure tester, which I obviously need to do more troubleshooting.
I run 5.1 and it works just fine. It's a very simple BT device, so I don't think you'd need to worry about that kind of thing. I can pretty much guarantee it will work on Marshmallow as well.
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Re: Car problems

Post by kyle »

get an ELM 327 and then use torque or torque (light) I got http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 5MA1TV9168 a few years ago, I'm sure there is something similar since that is no longer available.

EDIT: changes link from amazon to newegg, since newegg has that one
Last edited by kyle on Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Car problems

Post by Light »

kyle wrote:get an ELM 327 and then use torque or torque (light) I got http://www.amazon.com/Xseries-Auto-Blue ... B00QA26P92 a few years ago, I'm sure there is something similar since that is no longer available.
I use OBD Car Doctor. It's just the first thing I tried, but it works perfectly fine and gives the info I need.
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Re: Car problems

Post by Lucifer »

Ah, did some googling and apparently the ELM327 chip is a mixed bag. It may work fine, as y'all have seen, or it may fry the ECU, or simply not connect, and it doesn't support a few OBD2 protocols.

Still looking around, but I'm thinking maybe not this time. I'm going to want something solid that also works on every OBD2 port I ever encounter. You can take the pro out of the shop, but you can't take the pro from the pro.
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Re: Car problems

Post by Lucifer »

This page supports the bit where the adapters can be screwy, but only suggests connectivity issues:
http://torque-bhp.com/wiki/Bluetooth_Adapters

I already found the Torque software and picked it, been wanting an adapter that works with it. Any ideas how to tell if a listing is a Good Adapter?
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Re: Car problems

Post by Lucifer »

Aaaaaand this page talks about the bad knock-offs:
http://can-newsletter.org/tools/tools-m ... ft_140123/
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Re: Car problems

Post by kyle »

I read all that too when I was searching, and decided in the end to take a gamble with the one I linked you, based on the comments on amazon. I'm not 100% sure that it supports everything, but I've used it on a 99 sable, which should be pretty similar to the 96 Taurus.
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Re: Car problems

Post by ConVicT »

Lucifer wrote:I'm the guy you'd be taking your car to.
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