Official Servers

What do you want to see in Armagetron soon? Any new feature ideas? Let's ponder these ground breaking ideas...
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vov
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Re: Official Servers

Post by vov »

Maybe like a kind of dropdown fashion, in where you can select a subculture with the left/right keys and when you then press down you go to a server list for it?
Don't know if it's easy to implement, when to load from what master, or how well it works with the existing implementation of subcultures, would be very intuitive for me though. And it probably could use a lot of the existing code for the server list I'd imagine.
quick ascii mockup:

Code: Select all

_________________________________________________________________
|                                                               |
|  Subculture Selection:   <-  Subculture 123  ->               |
|                                    vvv                        |
|                                                               |
|     Server Name                      Ping  Users  Score       |
|                                                               |
|     Server321                         42   3/10    222        |
|                                                               |
|                                                               |
|                                                               |
|                                                               |
|                                                               |
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Lucifer
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Re: Official Servers

Post by Lucifer »

From what I gather, they'll all have to be polled at the same time. I don't really know, I've never looked at that part. ;)

Um, so I have an Armagoshdarn clone up now, and what looks like Breakfast in Hell. Oddly, I don't recognize it. :/
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Re: Official Servers

Post by Lucifer »

Here's some technical garbage for setting up the shared moderator stuff:

Each server admin will put several config files provided to everybody that will do all the magic of including all the files needed. Each admin will maintain their own config file that contains the moderators they have chosen for their servers, and will make that file available at convenient intervals to the public, preferably via web server (this will probably become a requirement, to be honest).

Then, each admin will download at a convenient time all the files from the other admins and put them in the Right Place for the server to use.

So, for example, you have servers A, B, and C.

Each server would have, say, a directory in their config directory called "official_moderators". In that directory will be three files, named "from_A.cfg", "from_B.cfg", and "from_C.cfg". Each of those files will contain all of the USER_LEVEL directives needed to make people moderators on each server.

Then there's a fourth file, called something like "moderator_master.cfg" or something like that. It would contain the default access levels for every command for the system (we might just go with the defaults that ship with the game, we might hammer it out a bit, since those defaults don't consider a network of moderators such as this). After all of that, it would include this snippet:

Code: Select all

INCLUDE from_A.cfg
INCLUDE from_B.cfg
INCLUDE from_C.cfg
Then, each admin puts a line in their everytime.cfg file that says "INCLUDE official_moderators/moderator_master.cfg".

So, up to this point, we have each server admin picking out their own moderators and making them available to all of the others. Each other admin reciprocates. We use everytime.cfg to get everything loaded between rounds.

Now, for each server, there will be specific changes they want made to the moderator list. For example, each server operator will put themselves in their from_NAME.cfg file as a regular moderator, because that's how the other servers will see them. But on their own server, they'll want to be Owner. That's a directive they'd put after the INCLUDE official_moderators line.

That also lets them override what's in the other admins' files, for example if a moderator on A acts real crazy on B, the owner of B might want to demote that moderator for a time.

Of course, ideally, in those situations, the server admins would get together and discuss getting rid of that moderator, or sanctioning together, or whatever. The point here is that the server owner can override everything.

Finally, why are these moderator files made available to everyone? Let's say YOU have a server you want to run, and you want to allow the official moderators to moderate it, but you're not going to have it be an official server, well, then you can include the files too.

I specifically wrote this not to use an RINCLUDE because then every server would require every other server to be running to work that way. This way, if A's webserver goes down for some reason, A's moderators can still operate on B and C, using the last known config file.

That stuff is actually obvious, but worth talking about. The TRON Police idea in the other thread needs to work this way, too. I don't see another way to make it happen. ;)

So, what we'd do, then, is periodically release a zip file that updates the servers, especially when there's a new one.

Now, how do the server admins get their config files out to people? That's largely left up to them, but if the embedded web server in 0.4 gets finished before release, there's one use for it right there.
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Re: Official Servers

Post by Word »

The TRON Police idea in the other thread needs to work this way, too. I don't see another way to make it happen. ;)
Not that anyone here requires my input or approval about this anymore, but yes, this is how I had done it as well. We can't/shouldn't/mustn't/won't force server owners to do anything anyway, at best just encourage/discourage to do stuff.

A few more things I'd add unless you've already thought about this:

1) Make the moderators/admins more distinguishable from other players (put their status on the scoreboard? add a point to the police menu which will send a message to them on irc so they come?). If they logged in already and someone new enters, they have to type the player command or ask to find out; obviously most new players don't know how to do the former, and the latter requires that A) someone else knows and B) is friendly enough to share his knowledge.

2) A "police radio": Communication between the servers so a moderator can get called to a "crime scene" in time; otherwise players leave the server and browse the server list until they might find someone.
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Re: Official Servers

Post by Lucifer »

1) I don't see this as a big deal. Especially if 2 is implemented. IRC channels usually don't have an active op even if there's a user there who can op themselves, and they function fine.

2) This is a clear case for the embedded webserver. The receiver of the call would be a url at the embedded webserver. Triggering the call, is a different story.
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Re: Official Servers

Post by sinewav »

I like where this is going, especially the part of having the official server bundled into a local game. To me I think that provides an much needed incentive to both create a solid game and maintain it. I'm subcultures were brought up, it's very good but underutilized feature of the game. As a huge fan of Shrunkland, I must add my voice — I think it is an ideal candidate official status. Likewise, I think "Tron Experience" (the Adventures of Tron incam server) makes a fantastic local game and is probably something a person downloading Armagetron might expect to find.

Are blondie's settings on page one up for testing? He's usually got some solid physics. This is another good one with variable spawn points (something I wish was a feature in local games).
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/dev/null
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Re: Official Servers

Post by /dev/null »

Talk to misery, he knows how to make this janky new rubber work mostly like it used to.
He also has a pretty solid host. We have been using it for years now.

Also
* Generally speaking, a core dump is worth 1 point, and a match win is worth 10 points. Deviations from this need a solid reason.

This needs to be enforced like Stalin ruling Russia.

As for a more detailed explanation, just make a quick game option on the menu that hits up the geoip database and directs you to the closest "official" server. Its a fairly simple UI change, and not that hard to do.

Also, if we get "Official" servers, they absolutely cannot be gimmicky/high rubber/etc. They need to be straight deathmatch.

I know im a dick on the forums, but im a pretty great guy ingame. Ill talk mad shit to people who can take it, but I go well out of my way to help a noobie.
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Re: Official Servers

Post by sinewav »

/dev/null wrote:Ill talk mad shit to people who can take it, but I go well out of my way to help a noobie.
Confirmed. I've actually seen this happen more than once.
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Re: Official Servers

Post by Lucifer »

/dev/null wrote:Talk to misery, he knows how to make this janky new rubber work mostly like it used to.
He also has a pretty solid host. We have been using it for years now.
What server is on it?

I saw him posting on Facebook again, so he's probably out of the hospital now.
Also, if we get "Official" servers, they absolutely cannot be gimmicky/high rubber/etc. They need to be straight deathmatch.
I agree in spirit, but let's face it, we'll need a good zonesV2 server at some point. It's in 0.4, it's supposed to enable more competitive gameplay (along with new game modes, but you've seen how that sort of thing has worked, there's really only been two that have come up that weren't based on gimmicks).

Definitely want the core to be deathmatch, and looking back to the servers that brought the second wave here and that the second wave ran, those are the servers we should be looking to for inspiration, I think. Not necessarily just clone them, but definitely stay within the core values that were there at that time.

In other words, we need to get back to roots, and do it while assimilating where we've gone since then.

And I second seeing you on the grid being cool. ;) That's probably what keeps you around here instead of getting instabanned randomly. ;)

Edit: Forgot to mention, the moderator style I'd like to see would also be in the tradition of the original Badmins (you, me, Dr Joe Tron, maybe a few others?). We could be capricious, and we could be cranky, but where would the community be if we hadn't been there at all?
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/dev/null
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Re: Official Servers

Post by /dev/null »

Misery runs the current puddle. No idea who his current hoster is, giving me ops is like giving a nuke a timer.

It works well enough, even if you cant talk a fucktard from the us into using a us server.
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Re: Official Servers

Post by Tank Program »

I like the idea a lot, and especially the ability to play the game modes locally.

10 points for the match, 1 point for a kill, nothing for anything else, will always be the gold standard for me. That's the Armagoshdarn inheritance right there.
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Re: Official Servers

Post by compguygene »

I am playing with some settings of my own for an official server. I had one question about scoring. What about using .4's ability to require the winner to be 2 points ahead for a match win?
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Re: Official Servers

Post by Tank Program »

An interesting idea. I always liked the 11 point with when others were at 10 though. ;)
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Re: Official Servers

Post by blondie »

let's make sure things are done for reasons and not for nostalgia

everyone has a server they loved
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Re: Official Servers

Post by Phytotron »

Lucifer wrote:Um, so I have an Armagoshdarn clone up now, and what looks like Breakfast in Hell. Oddly, I don't recognize it. :/
I tried both. Can't speak to goshdarn, but BiH definitely needs its rubber tweaked, specifically the _RUBBER_DELAY settings. It's way, way too easy to 180 grind a wall back and forth almost endlessly. I mean, it's worse than it even was in 0.2.7.1, which was the version at which that sort of 180 grinding (and adjusting) was really made possible and excessive.

You may also want to lower basic CYCLE_RUBBER by a point as well. Remember, 4 is what you were using back in 0.2.7.1. As you may recall, the rubber simulation was improved with 0.2.8 and everyone noticed they needed to dial it back a bit when upgrading their servers.

I would also recommend fiddling with _RUBBER_TIMEBASED a bit. You have it set to 1, whereas the traditional default would be 0. Splitting the difference at 0.5 might feel nice.
Lucifer wrote:everytime.cfg
I thought that was "deprecated" or whatever—no longer to be used.
moderator style
On this shared moderator thing, by the same token that there are certain physics standards the "official" servers are meant to have, surely the same should be said for player behavior and moderation thereof. Certain community standards, like a 'code of conduct,' need to be agreed upon. I suppose they could more or less reflect what's expected on this forum, rather than getting into some drawn-out thing about it. But again, I point back to what I quoted about the standards I expected in Shrunkland.
sinewav wrote:Likewise, I think "Tron Experience" (the Adventures of Tron incam server) makes a fantastic local game and is probably something a person downloading Armagetron might expect to find.
I second that.
/dev/null wrote:Talk to misery, he knows how to make this janky new rubber work mostly like it used to.
So, a few points here: 1) Misery didn't make the Pud Muddle rubber settings, some guy named ca$h did. Misery is just hosting it, after dlh dropped it, after ca$h dropped it (I think that's how it went). And as far as I'm aware he hasn't done anything to alter the settings. 2) On that point, there's really nothing special or atypical about its rubber settings, such that would be distinct from 0.2.8. 3) Even without paying attention to the actual values but just feel, I don't know how you could describe Mud Puddle as "rubber work(ing) mostly like it used to." I mean, not only doesn't it have any sort of "classic" or "traditional" feel, especially of an 0.2.6 variety, but it's almost impossible to die there; the entire server was set up to make it easy for these "open" players. If anything, it's closer to the broken 0.2.7.1 (where ca$h learned to play—on MBC of all places) than it is 0.2.6.
blondie wrote:let's make sure things are done for reasons and not for nostalgia
This isn't really nostalgia. It's recognition of the core concept of the game. That translates to the "special game modes," not the other way around.
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