Pickup Moderation

[Snxpflash]

Ok, not sure if anyone else has already done this but.. if not, you're welcome for those of you who think the rules need to be better managed.

After apparently and accidentally leaving about 1sec early from pickup, i was banned for 1 hour. I did not intentionally do this, thought i saw match, maybe i just saw the 210 score and subconsciously shift+esc'd? In any case, i never re-!add'd and therefore there was not so much as 1 negative implication to my actions. The current and future Pckup(s) were not affected in any way by my leave. After having a discussion with DLH on the matter, he made sure i understood, he'd much prefer go through the logs to be sure I did in fact leave early.. then to just scroll up and see if I !add'd or if anything was harmed by the infraction. Personally, i find this to be very unbalanced. A mod should in all cases take his 1st action to approach the individual and inquire of the intent and or issue a warning before a ban. Of course, many of you -set in your ways- will defend this lack of balance and rationality, but I know some of you find the rules far from fair. An HOUR Ban from pickup for accidentally leaving 1 to 2 seconds before the Match_Winner comes across your screen, when you didnt even !add for the next pickup? That's fair? Never has the instance where someone left after Final Score was shown, player left and chose not to !add, caused a single problem to the actual pickup or following pickup.


Can we please fix this imbalance so nobody else is wronged by the Moderation?

[Vogue]

Is there a reason you couldn't have posted this in any of the pickup threads including the ongoing one in the general section? Christ, dude.

[Snxpflash]

I stated I wasnt sure if there was any other place for it currently, also its a form of competition and i find it important.

[Monkey]

First of all, Liz is correct here thump, there is already an ongoing thread about exactly this. Click on "view new posts" each time you login here to see current threads and what they are about.
Here is a link to the current thread on this matter:
http://forums3.armagetronad.net/viewtop ... =2&t=23582

Secondly, I've seen you leave early several times, deliberately, saying that you don't care that you are leaving early because others do it too and you don't want to miss the next game. You know exactly what you are doing.

[Snxpflash]

It that were true and/or relevant monkey, i would have added for the next game in this current instance. however, I did not. And on the occasions you're speaking of, people were leaving and !add'ing well before Match_ and on those occasions when I waited and there was NO moderation, it was unfair to be left out. That which you're speaking of is completely irrelevant to the issue I stated.

Also, i apologize for missing the other thread regarding pickup moderation. I have a difficult time navigating forums for things like that sometimes.

[Hoax]

Why should it be the mods job to contact you? You broke a rule and action was taken. Also you've had no problem with this until it's affected yourself. It's been answered in the other topic anyway and to yourself personally already

[orion]

you ruined tron for banning thump, burn in hell hoax!

[Gazelle]

you ruined tron for banning thump, burn in hell hoax!

Hoax, you can make it all better by just banning orion next.

[breeze]

A thread because you broke the rules and got banned seems a bit like overkill. The rule is about leaving early, not adding early, for good reason too. I only felt the need to speak up here because everyone loves to bash the mods for enforcing the rules. Rarely are they unjust, and surely you are not the first person to get banned for "accidentally" leaving early. Remember, they don't want to ban people, but they do it for the betterment of the whole operation, and it my experience it is for the better.

[Snxpflash]

Why should it be the mods job to contact you? You broke a rule and action was taken. Also you've had no problem with this until it's affected yourself. It's been answered in the other topic anyway and to yourself personally already

Because its rational and just? You must inform of the infraction before taking action. Like in my case, I genuinely did not know I left early and was being disciplined. If I were Mod and someone left before 200 points reached, I would pm them if they were still in pickup and inquire as to why they left just in case something serious/legit happened. If the reason was not good enough then i'd consider disciplinary action. If I saw a player was walking the line between acceptable and unacceptable behavior but never caused an actual problem for anyone, perhaps a warning would be best in that case.

The rule is about leaving early, not adding early

Keep up breeze, the rule for leaving early was BECAUSE people were leaving early and !ADD'ING. And they were not just leaving after they saw the final score and before the Match_Winner splash, they were RQ'ing mid game or well before final score and sabotaging the match for everyone. If the only thing anyone did was leaving when they saw final score but before Match_Winner splash and yet chose NOT to !add for next pickup, there would have NEVER been any complaining by anyone and everything would still be peachy.

And those of you saying "Thump never had a problem till it was him blah blah " couldnt be more wrong. Im not upset because "this happened to me" Im upset because of the Mod's reasoning behind their decisions. I made this thread not for me but for everyone who's been wronged or felt wronged but never got anywhere with it. Though really what good is it coming from me anyway, should have thought that one through oO

[breeze]

There needs to be a definite cut-off point, in which the people in the current game know it's okay to add for the next game; the Match Winner display is just that. If you don't explicitly state when that point is, then it becomes a free-for-all. Whether the people add for the next game is irrelevant. When people see others leave early, they too want to leave "early" to try to make the next game. They aren't thinking "Oh, they left early, so they must plan to not add for the next game." You shouldn't get impunity because of your intentions after the match.

Even if I granted you that point and say it's acceptable to leave early if you don't add; what happens if you change your mind and want to play again? Would there be another cut-off point for that? Also, in this scenario you're assuming everyone trusts the moderators to handle all this correctly. [something you don't?] This would require significantly more moderation (and more rules) to sort through who left early and didn't add vs all the other possible combinations and so forth.

edit:
Not to detract from the point... but you want the moderators to go through this rigmarole, and track down the offenders, investigate and interrogate them (assume they are telling the truth), and then finally take action. You do realize they are not compensated and gain nothing personally from moderating the channel? Ever think they would just like to play the game and not have people break the rules? We are all getting something for nothing

[Snxpflash]

I think it's being made WAY too complicated. It's very simple. If an infraction causes no problems for anyone then it should not be disciplined and is in fact not even an infraction but a questionable decision. In the event an moderator is in question regarding said decision as to if its intent deserves discipline then a moderator can easily PM said offender for a brief discussion regarding the assumed offense. If it's CLEAR they deserve punishment, then so be it. Nonetheless the offender deserves to be informed of the infraction and the punishment before it's carried out. /msg Snxp You left early from pickup, you've been warned several times about this, there will be a 3 hour ban issued for your IP, ok? : Snxp- Gotcha. .. anyway, again.. its not that complicated.

[sinewav]

I think it's being made WAY too complicated. It's very simple.

Sure, because pickup admins have nothing better to do than chase people around and message them. There are rules. Learn them, follow them. That's the simplest way. What you are describing is complicated; a whole set of new protocols that burden the admins who (and you've obviously never been one) are volunteering their time to keep the game rolling.

[breeze]

Who decides what causes a problem? You see, there are rules that enable everyone to get treated fairly if they are followed consistently. Would the IRS give you more time to file your taxes because you "forgot" about the deadline? Even if they did, wouldn't everyone who didn't get extra time be upset? I'm sorry to say, but you are indeed making this complicated and it is very simple. You are unduly asking the moderators to do more work because people can't follow very basic rules. It would be a nicety to be informed about the duration and reason for a ban, but you don't deserve anything. I think you are opening up a can of worms if you leave these things up to moderator interpretation and whim. I understand your complaint, but I disagree with you.

[ppotter]

Pretty sure I've seen mods add the reason to the ban message every time.

It doesn't matter whether you intend to add or not, the rule is, 'don't leave the match before the splash message'. If you leave before then, you can't complain about being punished.