Is Elon still as evil after today?

[Lucifer]

As for the automation that Tesla robots are supposed to bring us, first let's take a moment and laugh at how Tesla's taxis have been shut down in Austin while Waymo keeps going.

This is a lie,

No it's not, they did get shut down, but they're up again. I saw one the other day.

In other news, Elon and Trump are full of shit. Kimmel is canceled. So much for free speech.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c203n52x1y9o

[Word]

Yeah, that and Antifa being considered a terrorist organization. I'm not a violent person at all and lots of people I know support Antifa. Their origin dates back to the beginning of Nazi-Germany (early similar movements existed already in the wake of WW1, decentralized "founding" of Antifa in 1932, Hitler came to power in 1933). Kyle, are you ok with Trump sending drones or seal team 6 after people who oppose Nazism and sometimes punch a nazi at a political demo? Because it sure looks like you are and I hope the next democrat president has the guts to put all kkk members and proud boys in their place, by which I mean not kill them but remove them from the street until they change their views.

[Z-Man]

Yeah, that and Antifa being considered a terrorist organization.

The bit that shocks me there is that they consider it an organization

Also, regarding freedom of press, do you know what authoritarian states like to do? They reduce the time visa (or other forms of documents required for them to do their work) for foreign journalists are valid for. After all, they can't control what they write in their home countries.
https://rsf.org/en/usa-proposed-journal ... ss-freedom

<apple>
Those are both copycat products. 2 years from samsung watch before apple made one, and Meta had their VR before apple came out with thiers

I'm not a VR, watch, or Apple guy, so I'm not going to argue that "Well, maybe, but the Apple version was way better".
But Meta also did not invent VR, they just bought and digested Oculus, who also did not invent VR, they just resurrected it from the 90s and, well, made it work. Not to make that sound small! It was a big achievement that required a lot of work, shaving away millisecond after millisecond of lag.

he only owns a single house, no super-yacht

Some brownie points for living small compared to those who rent the entire city of Venice... but he still has his private jets and blows 2000 tons of CO2 into the atmosphere with them every year. By far not the worst, and I allow some deduction because those flights are also for business, but it is still 100x more than the average US citizen. Who already are world leaders in per capita emission.

and ya, Elon bough a billion in shares last week, that hardly moves the needle in his ownership in the company

Just letting that stand there to let the scale speak for itself.

he can't just buy more shares to get to the 25% he wants

Neither can I, and do you hear me complaining? I may not have expressed what I want to know. Suppose Musk wanted to become a human spider. But he only has four limbs! He needs four more. So, to get there, he proposes to take your two arms and my two legs and graft them to him. You're OK with that, because after all, he really wants to be a human spider and how else is he going to get there? And then explain why growing clones of his own limbs in labs would be impractical, because it would take way too long, and gorilla arms and legs are too hairy... I just want to keep my legs and don't know why you don't want to keep your arms.

I don't care much about whether this proposal is the only way to give him whatever it is he wants. I want to know why you're OK with just giving up your stuff. While also complaining that asylum seekers are kept alive with taxpayer (so, your) money.

And I want to know why he wants to be a human spider in the first place. Err, I mean. You say he can't do the right things at twitter. Such as? He had his own tweets given a 1000% (or was that 1000 fold?) relevance boost, I'd be curious to know what he wants to change, but can't.

[Lucifer]

More of Trump being a free speech warrior

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/09/18/trump-j ... enses.html

He's threatening to pull FCC licenses for any network that "goes against " him after Kimmel. Yay free speech.

[kyle]

As for the automation that Tesla robots are supposed to bring us, first let's take a moment and laugh at how Tesla's taxis have been shut down in Austin while Waymo keeps going.

This is a lie,

No it's not, they did get shut down, but they're up again. I saw one the other day.

Lies, the never got shut down, the have at times taken the service down during rain and are not open from midnight to 6am, but no government agencies shut them down.

he can't just buy more shares to get to the 25% he wants

Neither can I, and do you hear me complaining? I may not have expressed what I want to know. Suppose Musk wanted to become a human spider. But he only has four limbs! He needs four more. So, to get there, he proposes to take your two arms and my two legs and graft them to him. You're OK with that, because after all, he really wants to be a human spider and how else is he going to get there? And then explain why growing clones of his own limbs in labs would be impractical, because it would take way too long, and gorilla arms and legs are too hairy... I just want to keep my legs and don't know why you don't want to keep your arms.

I don't care much about whether this proposal is the only way to give him whatever it is he wants. I want to know why you're OK with just giving up your stuff. While also complaining that asylum seekers are kept alive with taxpayer (so, your) money.

And I want to know why he wants to be a human spider in the first place. Err, I mean. You say he can't do the right things at twitter. Such as? He had his own tweets given a 1000% (or was that 1000 fold?) relevance boost, I'd be curious to know what he wants to change, but can't.

I knew I'd have to explain this more, First off we are giving up something like 7% of the company, and only if the stock goes up by like 600%, and yes dilution from the added shares we give him likely will happen before all the milestones are met, Tell me what company can grow it's market cap by 600% in valuation over 10 years, because he only has 10 years to do this to get it. So yes give the man your legs and my arms for a 600% ROI, if that's what's needed. And there are plenty of protections in the agreements for shareholders, as the was the milestones are written, for instance if Tesla and apple merges, all of apple does not count as it's market cap that he is working towards

The Twitter thing, I was literally talking Twitter under Jack Dorsey, Twitter was set up the same way as Tesla, a single class share, ultimately he only had a small amount of control, under 3% and basically had his hands tied by activist shareholders, that would not even let an edit button go out and wanted people of different beliefs from them to get shadow-banned, whereas Google, and meta, have a multi-class structure, so they were allowed to issue non voting shares, this kept major voting control by the founders, so they could push it in a direction.

Kyle, are you ok with Trump sending drones or seal team 6 after people who oppose Nazism and sometimes punch a nazi at a political demo?

When you put it this way yes, violence is NEVER the answer and you just said that they will assault someone because of their beliefs

Because it sure looks like you are and I hope the next democrat president has the guts to put all kkk members and proud boys in their place, by which I mean not kill them but remove them from the street until they change their views.

If kkk members assault or hurt others fine by me also.

More of Trump being a free speech warrior

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/09/18/trump-j ... enses.html

He's threatening to pull FCC licenses for any network that "goes against " him after Kimmel. Yay free speech.

If the clip I saw was all that was said, probably was not, this is wrong. I'm against this whole cancel culture BS that the left started, I mentioned her before and I'll mention her again, Paula Deen, pulled from food network because of racist remarks she made many many years before she was even on TV, yet she was also behind the hiring of the nelsons (a black couple that had/have a cooking show)(EDIT: I guess she is talking about this lately found this https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/cel ... 28310.html ) . Kimmel show is known for comedy, and while it's a low blow to celebrate an assassination, it's again known for comedy.

[Word]

When you put it this way yes, violence is NEVER the answer and you just said that they will assault someone because of their beliefs

But "someone" is a nazi and the other person isn't. And if you're against violence, well, you still voted for the guy who goes after people because of their beliefs and the color of their skin and their sexual preferences etc., not just by punching them in the face but with the American military if he can.

[Lucifer]

Lies, the never got shut down, the have at times taken the service down during rain and are not open from midnight to 6am, but no government agencies shut them down.

I didn't say government. I said "they", you know, using your trick to accuse people without having to name them.

More of Trump being a free speech warrior

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/09/18/trump-j ... enses.html

He's threatening to pull FCC licenses for any network that "goes against " him after Kimmel. Yay free speech.

If the clip I saw was all that was said, probably was not, this is wrong. I'm against this whole cancel culture BS that the left started, I mentioned her before and I'll mention her again, Paula Deen, pulled from food network because of racist remarks she made many many years before she was even on TV, yet she was also behind the hiring of the nelsons (a black couple that had/have a cooking show)(EDIT: I guess she is talking about this lately found this https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/cel ... 28310.html ) . Kimmel show is known for comedy, and while it's a low blow to celebrate an assassination, it's again known for comedy.

He didn't celebrate an assassination. Watch the clip. Quit lying and quit blaming other people. If a company wants to fire somebody for saying racist shit, that's not censorship. If the government threatens to revoke licenses because they were criticized, that is censorship.

This is Jon Stewart showing us the future of comedy.
https://youtu.be/_GXNJ3V9lzg?si=E3yy1CuKsBWZDVs2

[Z-Man]

the have at times taken the service down during rain

rain, or Texas Rain?

So yes give the man your legs and my arms for a 600% ROI, if that's what's needed.

Ah. Ok. I understand. You see this proposal and see the part where if everything pans out, you get at least 600% * 93% = 558% effective growth. I see Tesla's future performance as largely independent of any incentives given to its CEO, because they can only influence how much time he spends there, not how well he works... so I see mostly the -7%.
Oh well, it's not as bad as tech CEOs giving themselves bonuses for increasing profits via mass layoffs.

The Twitter thing, I was literally talking Twitter under Jack Dorsey

Uuuh, OK, except that there is no indication any of what you claim actually happened. I remember at the time, the complaints were firmly directed ad Dorsey himself. Shadowbanning was and is a tool in their toolbox (and is still used), of course. The investor influence was largely to push Twitter toward profitability. Which sort of is what investors do. But yeah, it can be harmful if you want to build a platform of any kind.

More of Trump being a free speech warrior

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/09/18/trump-j ... enses.html

He's threatening to pull FCC licenses for any network that "goes against " him after Kimmel. Yay free speech.

If the clip I saw was all that was said, probably was not, this is wrong. I'm against this whole cancel culture BS that the left started, I mentioned her before and I'll mention her again, Paula Deen, pulled from food network because of racist remarks she made many many years before she was even on TV

Weeeell, the actual remarks were from 2013. And while honest and understandable, they were also very tone-deaf and not media savvy. A bit more acknowledgement that the N-Word was bad even back then and that she certainly would never use it today would have helped a lot. But yes, blown out of proportion. Trump got away with worse.

Disney is no stranger to overeager removal of individuals. I don't remember the specifics, but the actress playing the buff female mercenary in Madalorian Season 1 was removed for her (then current) Twitter remarks. I don't recall anyone actually being angry at them, and I don't even know anymore what they were. James Gunn lost control of the Guardians of the Galaxy because a right wing mob organized a campaign of fake outrage over very old tweets that Gunn had already apologized for. Roughly.

Anyway, I hope you see the difference between:
People losing their jobs for being racist, even if it was just that one time
and
People losing their jobs for criticizing/making fun of the Government, because the Government demanded so

The latter is compelled censorship. Disney execs should have said "No, FU, make us" there. But as maybe established above, they are a bunch of weaselly worms. Or wormy weasels.

Very short video that is on the point: https://bsky.app/profile/garethwatkins. ... 6kpjmfqk2e
The cruelty is also the point. The lies are also the point. They lie as a power demonstration. They lie not only to deceive some, they are not only crulel because it is necessary to reach their goals, they also do it to show that they get away with it, every time.

[kyle]

the have at times taken the service down during rain

rain, or Texas Rain?

No clue I actually have not had the time to follow it as closely as I'd like. they might not even be shutting down for it any more. My car literally drives better than I can when in rain or fog.

So yes give the man your legs and my arms for a 600% ROI, if that's what's needed.

Ah. Ok. I understand. You see this proposal and see the part where if everything pans out, you get at least 600% * 93% = 558% effective growth. I see Tesla's future performance as largely independent of any incentives given to its CEO, because they can only influence how much time he spends there, not how well he works... so I see mostly the -7%.
Oh well, it's not as bad as tech CEOs giving themselves bonuses for increasing profits via mass layoffs.

I still don't think you get the full point, the -7% still shows massive gains for shareholders, if he even reaches it. there are a lot of milestones that must be hit in addition to market capitalisation(stock price) going up. I'd suggest looking at the full details in the annual report (PDF pages 76 though 78) https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data ... d3_ars.pdf

The Twitter thing, I was literally talking Twitter under Jack Dorsey

Uuuh, OK, except that there is no indication any of what you claim actually happened. I remember at the time, the complaints were firmly directed ad Dorsey himself. Shadowbanning was and is a tool in their toolbox (and is still used), of course. The investor influence was largely to push Twitter toward profitability. Which sort of is what investors do. But yeah, it can be harmful if you want to build a platform of any kind.

Ok the edit button was a bit far fetched, still possible true, but there was a lot of things that big money investors were pushing on the company, and in wrongful ways. ESG and DEI were big scandles that big money investors backed, that were basically ways to kill businesses slowly.

Very short video that is on the point: https://bsky.app/profile/garethwatkins. ... 6kpjmfqk2e

You can say it from one side or the other, neither I agree with. I'd just like to fact check one thing, Trump's threat was actually after Kimmel was pulled. both parties lie, and both parties try to out-due each other on who has a right to certain free speech. One could argue that Kimmel is on Public television, and they want him pulled, IE using public infrastructure to spread lies, whereas the Democrats have long argued that online hate speech needs to be criminalized, the difference here is, you are using the web and not public TV, therefore potentially jailing any citizen, vs a privileged member of a national broadcasting agency. If you are going to spread lies about the government on something the government gives your network the privilege to be a part of, that goes out for free to all households, then maybe you should be held accountable for those lies. (but just taking that stance for the dialogue, like I said both parties want it in different ways, and I don't want it.)

Lies, the never got shut down, the have at times taken the service down during rain and are not open from midnight to 6am, but no government agencies shut them down.

I didn't say government. I said "they", you know, using your trick to accuse people without having to name them.

Trick both sides use, that is just plain retarded

And if you're against violence, well, you still voted for the guy who goes after people because of their beliefs and the color of their skin and their sexual preferences etc., not just by punching them in the face but with the American military if he can.

I voted for someone who could secure our border. That's really the main thing I voted for, I did not think he would go as far as he has went with deportations, The whole transgeneder movement was ruining the lives of many kids turning adult. I hate to bring it up, but with what Lucifer said in the other thread, if he wants to Transition I'm fine with it, he's old enough, but kids have not fully developed and I said it before, the might idolize their older opposite sex sibling, and want to be just like them, without understanding the true consequences, You say trust the doctors, or psychologist, but how can anyone today trust them when they get kickback from drug companies, the more people they subscribe the more kickbacks they get. Trump Took it a little too far, but sometimes people have to see the extreams to get to a balance.

Finally on the racist topic, I've been thinking about this for a few days now. I don't think any of us here are racist. but if you look at the rules and laws they are all racist. When you get more privilege to get into college because you are black, that is racist. And rightfully for a generation or so after America lead at ending slavery, it probably was fair, but in today world, equal opportunities should be equal opportunities, not a your are black so we give you more of an opportunity than someone white. That is racism. When they say not enough minorities are at a company, and force quotas for them above the population percentage, that's racism. You need to have work ethic and drive, or else you won't succeed in the world.

Socialism is not the answer though, we need different levels of wealth for a functioning society, we need competition, to enable innovation.

You don't even know what socialism is. It's clear you have a completely warped idea of reality due to all the capitalist propaganda you read. Socialism can't remove inequality, only reduce it to sane levels (also I'm against most forms of socialism, are you surprised there are many kinds?). And you don't need competition for innovation, you need inspiration and cooperation.

I forgot about this one, Just like different levels of everything, and right now both sides label the other sides as extreme of what they are wanting to do. Please explain more what you are for.

[sinewav]

...right now both sides label the other sides as extreme of what they are wanting to do. Please explain more what you are for.

I'm not going to be able to accurately explain my worldview in less than many thousands of words. In the shortest version, I'm a Utopian Humanist whose views are shaped from dozens of philosophy books and the study of religion with a particular interest in Buddhism. People say my idealism is unrealistic, but they are missing the point. Having a coherent, consistent vision of a possible future gives me a framework to chose paths that will ultimately lead to that future. It's a future of human flourishing free of exploitation. Because of this I find myself isolated on the US political spectrum since everyone is too individualistic, selfish, ignorant, and short-sighted.

It's difficult to talk about politics in the US because the average person hasn't thoroughly read and understood an important 300 year window of European history and how the Industrial Revolution shaped politics today. In that, you have the birth of Enlightenment ideals like liberalism and socialism (these are not the same) and their context. That said, both major parties in the US are by definition right-wing and there is no viable left-wing party. So while you might complain about both sides being "extreme", to me they are basically the same: both pro-capital, pro-oligarchy, and determined to maintain the existing class structure and two-tiered justice system.

You're reading a lot of their propaganda kyle, but you're not in their club. You never will be. We're on the same team, and everyone else here too, but you can't seem to get the picture. It's because their propaganda is working, unfortunately.

[Z-Man]

Ok the edit button was a bit far fetched, still possible true <folowed by more made up stuff>

That is the classic excuse people use when you point out they were sharing fake news. "Well, but it could have been true", "Maybe, but I would not put it past them"

Very short video that is on the point: https://bsky.app/profile/garethwatkins. ... 6kpjmfqk2e

You can say it from one side or the other, neither I agree with. I'd just like to fact check one thing, Trump's threat was actually after Kimmel was pulled.

a) THAT WOULD NOT MAKE IT BETTER "The mugger only stabbed you after he took your wallet, so that's OK"
b) Trump escalated further by threatening ALL broadcasters.
c) I don't recall anyone saying Trump personally. I might have. But I think I only referred to "The Government". The threats that got Kimmel cancelled came from FCC head Brendan Carr.

Your justification for all of that seems to hinge on the broadcasters 'spreading lies'. If that were the standard, they could not air anything Trump says But it was a comedy show, making fun of/criticizing Trump. That's all it takes. Saying something that makes the Great Leader unhappy.

In countries where the Government respects the free press, such actions are simply unthinkable. Heck, even with state financed media (in free countries), they are unthinkable. I don't consume enough BBC to know personally (they make it hard outside the UK), but both RTP (Protugal public broadcast) and German public TV can dump on the Government as much as they like (within the legal limits that apply to everyone, of course). Such a thing would not happen here. I SAID SUCH A THING WOULD NOT HAPPEN HERE (It's a bit different, the trigger was not something anyone said in a broadcast, but still meddling where there should be no meddling)

transgeneder movement

Not a thing that exists. There are just people who happen to be trans.

When you get more privilege to get into college because you are black, that is racist. And rightfully for a generation or so after America lead at ending slavery,

You realize that legal discrimination against blacks continued long after slavery ended, right? And factual racist people continued to be a massive problem long after that? And that the compounding effects of all of that mean that on average, black families are poorer than white families and therefore at a disadvantage?
Sure, you could tie any advantages and privileges to a 'poor family' background check (very hard to do right). And not apply them at the hiring stage, but in education, so that precisely those in need would get a leg up. But know what? They'll then find out that these programs also mostly help black kids AND STILL COMPLAIN.

[Lucifer]

You can say it from one side or the other, neither I agree with. I'd just like to fact check one thing, Trump's threat was actually after Kimmel was pulled.

a) THAT WOULD NOT MAKE IT BETTER "The mugger only stabbed you after he took your wallet, so that's OK"

Trump actually did make the threat several months ago. He specifically named Kimmel, and then lo and behold, then it was kimmel. It was in his celebratory tweet about Colbert being cancelled. So maybe not several months ago.

Also, for Kyle, you *do* know that the FCC, while nominally independent, still works at the pleasure of the president, right? So he can hire and fire the FCC chair? Is it so far-fetched to think that the person who wrote the chapter in Project 2025 about how to use the FCC the censor the press, who is now the head of the FCC, nominated by Trump, would take action against Kimmel in exactly the way he said he would, to make Trump happy about his job performance? That Trump celebrated the move validates that it was done on his behalf, whether directly or not.

Dictators don't gain power by themselves. They have their team.

Also, I want to revisit this:

This is a lie,

No it's not, they did get shut down, but they're up again. I saw one the other day.

Lies,

...

Kimmel show is known for comedy, and while it's a low blow to celebrate an assassination, it's again known for comedy.

You can't complain about what you think is lies and then turn around and lie.

At least in my case, I found what I thought was the service getting shut down, and it was just a delayed deployment due to regulatory hurdles. But Kimmel didn't celebrate an assassination, and that's not why he got suspended.

Also, he's back on tonight. If I had broadcast TV, I'd actually watch his show tonight. He's the weakest of the late night comedians that I actually like, so I usually skip him, but I'm really curious what he's going to say in his monologue tonight.