Osama is dead now.

[INW]

I just made up a number. That is the point. I wasn't comparing any events or nations.

Just put a number down to put one down.

[Phytotron]

You're not following. I'm not only asking about the number, I'm asking about why you injected soldiers into it at all. What was the relevance? You haven't made any points, just random, out of context, and grossly uninformed comments.

[matchbox53]

o plz i dont really need someone to lecture me about english

Yeah, you really do. But, if you insist on proudly making yourself look like an idiot, so be it. Just don't expect any respect from anyone, or for anyone to take seriously what you type.

look dude seriously i always try to avoid people like you cause what they think they are above others you are arrogant and egoist and i dont like that . and i really dont need your respect and when you try to give an advise make sure you say it more nicely .

[Mkay1]

I don't understand that.

edit: oh, quote messed up.

[Titanoboa]

when you try to give an advise make sure you say it more nicely .

Imo, giving advice is always nice. (Hey that's a catchy rhyme, I should copyright it.)
It's indeed a bit hard to follow your posts sometimes and since I know you can do better, I'm gonna agree with Phytotron; put some effort in your posts so people can properly get your point. And as I hope you know, I'm not trying to be mean in any way.

[Mecca]

cats

The difference is that OBL was responsible for coordinating 9/11 (or at least is given over 90% of the credit (which is why he is the target for many people)). The guy mentioned by slov(?) was not sleeping well because the man who organized the attack that killed his son (and others) is still alive, probably in fear that OBL can and will do something like that again.

I'm trying to say it makes sense to want to kill OBL so that he cannot plan anything like that again (even though someone else easily could).

Killing Americans? No, that does not make sense (I can understand why they would want to). The reason people were so happy about OBL (I feel that we are talking about SP Oblivion now ) dead is because he was the source of the attack.

Killing the soldiers? Yes, that makes sense, even though it isn't personalized, that would be killing the source of their deaths.

Also, yeah the war is on terror (even though it has probably been the cause for more terror than it has destroyed (probably should have used some other word or phrased that differently)); but what I am talking about is how people effected by 9/11 want OBL dead.

Yes, several previous statements of position from you have expressed the reverse. Are you indicting yourself as part of the problem now?

When have I ever said I wasn't part of what problem? I see things all the time (not just on the forums) and do nothing to help the situation. I am part of many problems (along with everyone on these forums).

[Z-Man]

invade a country without their knowledge

Umm, what? According to all reports, the assault was coordinated with Pakistan. Pakistani forces were on site guarding the perimeter.

Er, no. What are you referring to? The operation that got bin Laden? What reports are you reading?

Yes, that. I'm reading German news, so... translated paragraph summing up the information situation:

Americans acted, Pakistani baffled
To mask the ignorance and lack of action, army and secret service spread the information Monday morning the assault had been "a secret action coordinated between Pakistani and American forces" - a thesis confirmed by Pakistan's ambassador in Great Britain that evening. But fact is: The USA acted, Pakistani just watched and secured the perimeter.

They can't do that without being informed, can they? Sure, they were informed very late, but 'invasion' isn't the right word.

[wildcat]

Hmmm. The reason I posted that was bc all the news outlets here say Pakistan was not informed. In fact, they stated the helicopters had to spin or something like that in order to stay out of the Pakistan army's radar. One of the major controversy of this situation was that USA was in foreign airspace without permission.

[sinewav]

One of the major controversy of this situation was that USA was in foreign airspace without permission.

Yeah, Pakistan is our dog though. We give them billions every year, so they won't make much of a fuss about this. That's also part of the controversy; every time we bring up Pakistan we have to bring up our financial commitment to a very un-democratic government.*

It was wrong for us to go in there without permission. It is wrong for us to be supporting them financially. I mean, if there was ever a time to go into Pakistan unannounced, it would have been to protect Pakistan's greatest advocate of democracy, Benazir Bhutto. But we didn't, and now she's dead. The United States only cares about "American values" when it's convenient. Go USA.


*Of course if Pakistan had an actual democracy the people would vote for no involvement with us, which would cause the US to lose some degree of control over their country, a country with nukes and a desirable strategic location.

[matchbox53]

One of the major controversy of this situation was that USA was in foreign airspace without permission.

Yeah, Pakistan is our dog though. We give them billions every year, so they won't make much of a fuss about this. That's also part of the controversy; every time we bring up Pakistan we have to bring up our financial commitment to a very un-democratic government.*

It was wrong for us to go in there without permission. It is wrong for us to be supporting them financially. I mean, if there was ever a time to go into Pakistan unannounced, it would have been to protect Pakistan's greatest advocate of democracy, Benazir Bhutto. But we didn't, and now she's dead. The United States only cares about "American values" when it's convenient. Go USA.


*Of course if Pakistan had an actual democracy the people would vote for no involvement with us, which would cause the US to lose some degree of control over their country, a country with nukes and a desirable strategic location.

+1

[apparition]

-1

[Tank Program]

*cough*

[Phytotron]

Does the president of the United States have a right to kill someone?

In 1976 Gerald Ford ("dead today, eaten by wolves") penned Executive Order 11905: United States Foreign Intelligence Activities, part of which addressed "Prohibition of Assassination. No employee of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, political assassination."

Presidents Carter and Reagan followed this up with their own EO's reiterating, modifying, strengthening, and putting further restrictions on intelligence activity, and specifically the matter of assassination. (Reagan's Executive Order 12333, which contains links to others related.)

Then we come to GW Bush, his terming of a "war on terror," and the Administration's creation of the "enemy combatants" legal designation. That's what has allowed for actions like military drone strikes on al-Qa'ida (or those claimed to be), "targeted killings," military detention at Gitmo, "extraordinary renditions," and military tribunals rather than trials in American or international civilian courts.

With regard to Osama bin Laden, specifically, they made the contention, as does the Obama Administration, that he was a military, or at least paramilitary or militia, commander, thus making him a legally legitimate target for killing as a matter of "national self-defense." (This is all in the news, by the way, if ya'll would read it. Eric Holder testified to Congress about it just the other day.)


Then, there's the matter of possibly having breached Pakistan's sovereignty....

Z-Man, I don't know where Der Spiegel is getting that. Everything I'm reading in the US and UK says Pakistani officials and military were clueless to the raid. Pakistan's foreign minister, included.

[Phytotron]

o plz i dont really need someone to lecture me about english

Yeah, you really do. But, if you insist on proudly making yourself look like an idiot, so be it. Just don't expect any respect from anyone, or for anyone to take seriously what you type.

look dude seriously i always try to avoid people like you cause what they think they are above others you are arrogant and egoist and i dont like that . and i really dont need your respect and when you try to give an advise make sure you say it more nicely .

I did say "PLEASE."

Here's the thing, this isn't about arrogance or being an "egoist" or some other silly posturing shit. That's all in your mind. If anything, you're the one being cocky with your resentful anti-intellectualism. But that's artificial self-worth. It's artifice, erected and put on display not only for others, but as a way to delude yourself as well. And you're not alone on this forum in being that way.

You see, my comments to you were not about lording myself over you; again, all in your mind. They're about having a greater expectation for you and others than you evidently have for yourself. I'm not putting you down; you're putting yourself down. You are, or at least can easily be, better than that. Have a little more self-respect and dignity and higher expectations for yourself, and learn about real self-worth. Then you can get that resentful monkey off your back and drop this misconceptualized concern and spite for all these bogyemen out there who you believe "think they are above others [and] are arrogant and egoist."

[Mkay1]

Thanks for the information, phyto. Haven't had much time to look at this in depth because I have AP tests.