Fortress-For-All - Discussion

[Ratchet]

Double Post.

ALSO. Wanted to say, big thanks to Convict, Light, Peat, Renegade, and Kyle for letting me use your servers. Thankyouthankyouthankyouthankyou. This couldn't have been played without you guys

[Peat]

Double Post.

ALSO. Wanted to say, big thanks to Convict, Light, Peat, Renegade, and Kyle for letting me use your servers. Thankyouthankyouthankyouthankyou. This couldn't have been played without you guys

You're welcome. Speaking of this, does anyone have any feedback for my server? I know it normally seems to lag more for US people than the standard German affair. How was it yesterday?

[Bytes]

Just to say, if there are 2 subs per team next time, make sure they have to sign up in a separate sub section, otherwise I worry that no new players will get to play as they get picked last as subs.

Sorry if that was a little convoluted...

[Mkay1]

I like that idea, of say two substitutes. The captains should then pick the substitutes in the same manner that they did the original players, or do it randomly.

[bilbo baggins]

however as bytes said signed up players should have priority over substitutes, because i see newbies signing up and then pro's being subs and just replacing the newer players and therefore destroying the concept of the tournement

[Titanoboa]

Perhaps 8 teams of 6 with two subs on each team (54 total players)

64

[Ratchet]

Perhaps 8 teams of 6 with two subs on each team (54 total players)

64

Thx <3

@Bytes: The substitutes 1-8 would have priority over 9-16 (because they signed up first). I would separate them into two different picking groups.

Also, to answer the other part of what you mentioned - something that was a big problem today. [Some] team captains felt it appropriate to replace your missing players with substitute players with substantially more skill than the original player. This is not happening again. If another FFA is held, it will be canceled (literally) if we do not have the entirety of players signed up. We're no longer going to use outside players that haven't signed up. End of story. If your team of 8 is shorthanded (you picked unreliable players) then you are simply shorthanded.

Also, there will no longer be clan-centered teams. Someone mentioned that it would be a problem in the earlier stages of discussion about a FFA tournament. Captains will now be allowed to take a maximum of 1 player that exists within their own clan. No exceptions. A captain may also select only 2 players from a clan they are not in. Ex:

J-Dawg: Kyle, Pike, Wildcat, House, Billybob = unacceptable
J-Dawg: Pike, Wildcat, House, Pr3, Billybob = unacceptable
J:Dawg: Pike, Wildcat, House, Gazelle, Roter = acceptable (2 Ct (1 other person) (2 uNk) (2 RD) <- A stretch of the rules in all ways possible, but still better than the last method.

[Light]

ALSO. Wanted to say, big thanks to Convict, Light, Peat, Renegade, and Kyle for letting me use your servers. Thankyouthankyouthankyouthankyou. This couldn't have been played without you guys

No problem at all. Hopefully it all went well. I know it was probably a downside that I'm from the US, but all I got. lol

[Gazelle]

Also, there will no longer be clan-centered teams. Someone mentioned that it would be a problem in the earlier stages of discussion about a FFA tournament. Captains will now be allowed to take a maximum of 1 player that exists within their own clan. No exceptions. A captain may also select only 2 players from a clan they are not in.

Then doesnt that take away from the us being a "Captain" and choosing our "own team", if we choose to pick our clan members before somebody else does, whats the problem?

If you dont want them before it comes to my turn again, then im surely going to take them? And im sure others would do the same for their own clan member..

Im sorry i just think that limiting us to selecting 1 clan member is a preposterous rule.

[ElmosWorld]

Also, there will no longer be clan-centered teams. Someone mentioned that it would be a problem in the earlier stages of discussion about a FFA tournament. Captains will now be allowed to take a maximum of 1 player that exists within their own clan. No exceptions. A captain may also select only 2 players from a clan they are not in.

This is a very dumb rule. Wasn't a problem this time, don't expect it to be a problem in the future.

If anything a rule like "Your first 2 picks must be from different clans" could be instated, but even that would be a bad thing.

[Mkay1]

Also, there will no longer be clan-centered teams. Someone mentioned that it would be a problem in the earlier stages of discussion about a FFA tournament. Captains will now be allowed to take a maximum of 1 player that exists within their own clan. No exceptions. A captain may also select only 2 players from a clan they are not in.

This is a very dumb rule. Wasn't a problem this time, don't expect it to be a problem in the future.

If anything a rule like "Your first 2 picks must be from different clans" could be instated, but even that would be a bad thing.

Agreed

[Overrated]

No more than 3, maybe 4 of a clan per team would be different. Half of a team being one clan doesn't seem too bad. Especially when this could also be used as really good practice time between players.

Most people are going to pick their clan mates before picking others because they know their strengths and weaknesses better than others. And if not for that, practice.

[Ratchet]

No more than 3, maybe 4 of a clan per team would be different. Half of a team being one clan doesn't seem too bad. Especially when this could also be used as really good practice time between players.

Most people are going to pick their clan mates before picking others because they know their strengths and weaknesses better than others. And if not for that, practice.

That's the exact problem with it. The initial purpose of this is to develop a method of bringing new players together rather than keeping teams to old news. I do not want existing teams to play together, I want people to experience the excitement of having a completely new team. It's boring if you play with mostly the same team as normal.

It was a problem this time. Gaz had most of Redemption on his team, and then subbed RD members that signed up for non-signed up RD members. It was basically destroying the randomness of it. The point is to bring about renewed excitement and take away from the "same old thing" that the Ladle brings. (The ladle is a great tournament, but team performances can be somewhat predicted. e.g., everyone knows that CT will steamroll ID)

I personally believe that teams should have a wide variety of players to maximize the experience.

From page 1:

To stop it actually becoming ladle, you could set a max number of clan members in a team, say 2 of any clan, to make sure the teams have some variety. Kinda like ISL did.
Unfortunately I think I'm away for this but you kids have fun!

Well done Ratchet for a good idea. I'll certainly try and take part, although I'm not sure if I'll be around.

There needs to be a System there to avoid (as Bytes correctly hinted at) clan-dominated teams, as well as a system to determine the order of picking. We wouldn't want to have a few super teams, and some not-so-super.

Perhaps randomise the captains to determine the picking order, allow one pick at a time (like Pickup) and limit teams to how many same-clan players are in each team? Also, what happens if a Captain doesn't show up?

Clan-dominated teams were immediately ruled out in the early stages of development. Again, it takes away from the goal of creating a new environment that still hints at the Ladle. We don't want this to be LadlePracticeTournamentFFA, we want it to be the Fortress For All tournament. If you only want to play with your clanmates, stick to practicing and playing the Ladle. If you're willing to play with new people for once, play the FFA.

[Ratchet]

recording file. Sorry, I don't have a nifty website to upload the recordings to, and the file is too big for the forum attachments.

http://speedy.sh/N6Syr/ArmagetronAdvanc ... ording.zip

[Overrated]

Captains should know who is in what clan and where they are, correct? It should be up to them to stop a clan from getting teamed together in their drafting. They can stop any overrunning by picking a certain player ahead of them. I draft in middle of the rounds and I wanted Red in the 2nd round for example. If I had gotten Poke in round 1, then the other captains can stop me from getting Red by taking him before me in round 2. I will always want to play with clan-mates because of the atmosphere and well-knowing of players. This wouldn't stop new players from being able to play. They would still get drafted like the rest.

If a player drafts 3 unk, I don't see the problem in that. They want the players they want and if 3 unk players fell to them, they should be able to take them. If anything, you should make it so that the team leader doesn't provide a bias based on the clan/team* they're in if you have too.

*fixed