Armagetron Class in school!

[Clutch]

Because my mom who fares well during jeoprady does not know those answers...and she is a fifth grade teacher

Win

[gawdzilla]

Boy, reading comprehension is really not your strong suit.

[boobert]

Tank you are quite the world traveller. I like the sound of schooling in England. I used to think I would make Oxford my first choice and keep Harvard as a safety. And here I am doing neither. Go figure. I actually have a friend over there living in the Chelsea area (I hate Drogba) for the next year working and taking summer courses. I never asked her how much it was costing her but it sounds like being a foreigner over there would still be some big bucks besides the cost of living. I hear London is killer. Not sure how she's doing it. I have Irish citizenship, but it is the Republic so I don't know if I could get in on those discounts that you domestics have. Although I do qualify as a sort of E.U. citizen with my E.U. passport. Worth looking into though methinks.

Back to heavier notes.

Mkay you are right in that I downplayed the amount of money it costs to go to school. I knew someone that wanted to go to Brown med school but decided that it costs too much. First year would have been $61,000, 2nd would have been $65,000 etc. Not to mention the debt already incurred from 4 previous years. Word was referring to a decline in the number of doctors in Germany. I see a similar future for us since it is too expensive for the average bear to consider it a realistic goal. And the cost of books! omfg! With AP classes I can only assume that either your system is different than mine, the national system has changed or you are in for a rude awakening. The grading criteria you described is the same here but not the way the credits system actually works. (I am referring to Advanced Placement courses for college credit to avoid confusion. )

With sports in college you've opened up a whole new can of worms and absolutely a just cause for reform. (Eat it tea-baggers.) We all know that athletes have people take tests for them such as the SAT in order to get into a big school for their sport. Education is secondary because it doesn't generate the same revenue. Syracuse's basketball coach makes close to $1.5 million per year. That's just one sport. They also have to pay for the arena. But the players don't get paid. Nor do they go to class. Nor are they paying full tuition, if at all. For lack of knowledge about the terminology I'll just say some stage of the playoffs takes place over a 2 week period where all the teams gather to play at one location. So are the players learning by way of Skype? Maybe they got all their work in advance... Probably not. They aren't going to classes. They won't make it up. But they most likely got free rides to play some basketball and get a degree. They graduate having not been educated and are off to pursue careers in fields they know nothing about and probably never will. But who pays for all these athletes to get these degrees if they don't? We do. We all do. We pay tuition and goes right to other things from which we never benefit. We pay the cable companies and they pay for the right to air these games. It's the same for all sports. Especially, but not limited to, division 1 schools. Well, there is actually a book about all this but I forget the title at the moment. I'll have to get back to any one interested. (don't all raise your hands at once)
Also I wasn't calling any one on these threads stupid. My rant was meant to be in general and more geared towards uneducated adults and our deficient system and complete loss of standard. College used to mean something. It's hard to believe it still carries that meaning. But that doesn't mean I am apologising to any one or recanting in any way. I do feel that way and if any one was offended then that's their problem.

I was only required to take PhysEd for one semester (half a school year) as a Freshman in HS. After 2-3 weeks of heated conflict with the coach (over his macho power trips, sexist disrespect and creepiness toward girls, and general asshole-tude), I took to sitting out the period on the bleachers for the remainder of the semester. At the end of the semester he gave me a C just so he wouldn't have to have me back. Har.

Hehe. I had to take PE throught my 6 years. (Elementary = Grades K-6, High school = 7-12 for me. No middle school) I felt similarly about my gym teachers and didn't really participate in many of their activities. So I was also getting those 65's I was referring to earlier. Not to mention I don't relish the idea of playing some stupid gym sport with a bunch of noisy meat heads. In 7th grade my athletic director was fired for having some sort of incident with a female student. Details remain shady to this day. Only 1 gym teacher was there as long as I was. The only one who never got involved with another teacher or student.

[Tank Program]

I would make Oxford my first choice and keep Harvard as a safety.

I'm pretty sure Oxford would be cheaper, but it's not exactly easy to get into.

I never asked her how much it was costing her but it sounds like being a foreigner over there would still be some big bucks besides the cost of living. I hear London is killer.

Living where I am (Sheffield) isn't too bad, it's only about 5,000GBP a year. London could easily be double that. It's an ouch thing.

I have Irish citizenship, but it is the Republic so I don't know if I could get in on those discounts that you domestics have. Although I do qualify as a sort of E.U. citizen with my E.U. passport. Worth looking into though methinks.

You should qualify for EU fees then. My parents actually were encouraging me to look at studying in Ireland because it's even cheaper there, especially for non-EU students.

But who pays for all these athletes to get these degrees if they don't? We do. We all do. We pay tuition and goes right to other things from which we never benefit.

I don't know if you've actually lived by one of these universities, but at least on the regional scale, no one cares. Having lived in NC, right smack in the middle of at least 4 or 5 consistent NCAA March Madness schools, I can say that there is a tremendous amount of pride throughout the area that they do so well. When I was there, you could hear about how a game would have been different had Jordan still been on the team, 20 years later. Yes, Micheal Jordan. I can only think of a handful of friends that weren't really into basketball there. It may cost them a lot, but there's a proportional amount of interest.

[Phytotron]

Quick note: I did have PE all through elementary. I only recall one year of it in middle school, but not sure.

The NCAA discussion is pretty deep and complex, but here are a few random, rambling points. It's certainly not simplistic from any side. It's certainly over-commercialised and over-corporatised for something referred to as "amateur athletics." Over-emphasised, too, but it's huge entertainment for a lot of people. But, the men's college basketball and football programs do generate a lot of revenue for the school in general and for the rest of the athletic department. There's that NCAA ad that goes, "There are over 380 thousand student-athletes in the NCAA and just about all of [them/us] will be going pro in something other than sports." And that's true; many of those kids do parlé those scholarships into an actual education. There's a lot more than just basketball and/or football, after all. And don't forget Title-XIV and its impact and importance; that's not to be underestimated. There's very little-to-none-to-negative revenue generation from those sports, but they have value for those young men women, and the big basketball (especially) and football programs support that. (UofL, my team, happens to be the most profitable basketball program in the US several years running, and the impact for the rest of the AD is obvious and remarkable, if not well known.) Of course, there's the downside of all this, such as the absurdly high coaching salaries and tuition increases in spite of it. And while you knock the athletes for getting a free ride, note that the above revenue generation is on the backs of this high-profile subset of athletes (b-ball and football), and many to most don't get much back from it—though certainly some do take positive advantage of the opportunity; don't stereotype them all. There's been argument for a stipend for athletes over the years; I'm ambivalent about that, and it would have to be part of a larger overhaul. And athletes, even the big college and football programs, do do things like bring tutors along on away games, take tests early, finish up late, and attend summer school. Some graduate early while still eligible to play, while others continue courses once their eligibility runs out. Yet, despite that, well, here are a couple of sources of graduation rates:
http://www.tidesport.org/ncaagraduationrates.html
AP article
Washington Post

'Course, I used to be strongly, philosophically anti-sports, which is a whole 'nuther subject. I still am in many ways (the aforementioned commercialism, jock culture, etc.), but found myself getting into the games themselves as I got older. It's cognitive dissonance for me.

[ItzAcid]

1. "Are you Smarter than a Fifth Grader?" DOES NOT depict all American education
2. Phytotron, I'm not sure how old you are, but was the gifted program active when you were in school? For some reason I was thinking in started somewhere between late 60's to early 70's. I know its progressed from what it used to be in the formation of gifted specific classes, etc. The whole gifted program is interesting since its been called "the opposite end of retarded on the spectrum of inteligence". Where I live, it is actually considered a handicap in some school systems. Just curious.
Random: Advanced program was/is ahead of honors right? From what I understand its just Advanced Placement with a few minor changes and a slightly different name.
3. NCLB was the most idiotic attempt to enhance the education system. Imo

[Mecca]

+1 to Phytotron's post (please don't freak out about this (mainly directed at Epsy actually, but still, the rest of you, don't freak out))

Also, remember that the NCAA is not only comprised of the best of the division 1 athletes you see on TV. I really don't watch college basketball often (if at all) and I think football is boring and confusing, so i don't really know how academically inclined the student athletes are portrayed to be, but I do know that there are many student athletes in the NCAA that are getting scholarships that are performing well in the classroom as well as on the field, track, trails, courts, and cats.

The football players may be a few fries short of a happy meal though. : D

[Word]

And the cost of books! omfg!

hah, our cabinet declared some weeks ago that schoolbooks are for free now (which allows them to say they invest something in education) but most schools don't have enough room to store all the books, and the procedure to get it for free is very complicated. When the books finally arrive, they will just be stacked in front of our school's office until they rot.

[Tank Program]

1. "Are you Smarter than a Fifth Grader?" DOES NOT depict all American education

The British version is "Are you smarter than a 10 year old?" - I'm not sure if that's actually a completely different show or just a re-branding, as they don't use grades here. It's actually an amusing show. Some of the questions I've seen asked are kind of tricky, but for the most part both my parents and myself could answer them. It was pretty depressing seeing some of what people got wrong though, especially on the math side. I find it hard to believe it's representative, but remember it is being marketed as entertainment.

[Clutch]

The football players may be a few fries short of a happy meal though. : D

[Phytotron]

The British version is "Are you smarter than a 10 year old?" - I'm not sure if that's actually a completely different show or just a re-branding....

I'm sure it is. Fifth grade is mostly comprised of ten-year-olds (some of whom might turn 11 during the school year). There has been a deluge and barrage of re-branded British gameshows and reality tv garbage for American boob-tubery over the past several years. I guess American gameshow producers exhausted all their ideas in the '80s.

EDIT: Actually, turns out that in this case the US version debuted first. "Are You Smarter..." International versions. It spread rather quickly, didn't it?

Only gameshow we ever watch is Jeopardy—on as I type.

Random: Advanced program was/is ahead of honors right? From what I understand its just Advanced Placement with a few minor changes and a slightly different name.

Advanced Program is above Honors, in terms of academic difficulty. An example of a difference in courses for a HS freshman would be as such: An Honors student would take traditional Algebra I, whereas the AdvProgram student would be on Integrated Mathematics III (having taken I and II in 7th and 8th grade, respectively). The Honors student would continue on with Algebra II as a sophomore and preCal as a junior, while the AdvProgram student would take...uh...well, I got kicked out of AP and stuck in Honors after my Freshman year, so I don't recall. (My GPA dipped below whatever it was required to remain in AP. This was due to my not doing homework, which was due to slackery and the beginnings of substance abuse. I would typically ace tests and other in-school work, but had a lot of zero's due to homework not being submitted.)

However, there's no cost to the AdvProgram placement process (which does involve a test and evaluations), and no college credits awarded. Here's how it works here currently: http://www.jefferson.k12.ky.us/Schools/AdvProgram.html

But, no, I don't think AdvProgram is just a modified Advanced Placement curriculum. They both exist, and there's some overlap. Honors students may have taken Advanced Placement courses, as well, see.

[ItzAcid]

Oooh alright. So the main difference then between Advanced Placement and Advanced Program is that Placement awards college credits right? I can see how they overlap too. My honors and AP overlap as well so its definetly feasible that Ap and Ap can be taken together x]

[Mecca]

Seems like Advanced Program refers to an... err... academic track. Advanced Placement is just a type of class. In my high school there were a number of students who took algebra II in sophomore year and pre calc in their junior year; but I have never heard of the term "Advanced Program" before reading this topic (I also remember a few students taking algebra II as freshman o.0).

[boobert]

]

I'm pretty sure Oxford would be cheaper, but it's not exactly easy to get into.

It's a good thing I gave up on that in the fifth grade. I sounded extremely ambitious there.

]

I don't know if you've actually lived by one of these universities, but at least on the regional scale, no one cares.

I know what you mean yet part of me thinks that maybe they should care. I know I do. It just doesn't seem right to me that our education system is what is funding and breeding athletes for the professional leagues while the NFL and NBA rake in the profit for not having to fund a farm system. Meanwhile millions of students are stuck paying off debt for the better part of thir unenjoyable adulthoods for having to fund a farm league for a sport they will never find interesting. I know Division I soccer often goes overseas to recruit players and there is really no way of rating them academically. They get free rides while, arguably, more deserving players get better grades, pay full tuition and ride the bench. I like the English Premier League's sytem of running an academy where athletes train AND study at the expense of the club. But that is an older and more established league to be sure.

Interesting numbers you posted Phytotron. Obviously women do better academically as college athletes according to these sources. I might attribute that to the fact that they are there primarily for educational purposes. Their sports don't generate the same revenue as the men's and there are far fewer aspirations to pursue a professional career after college which is another problem with universities acting as a farm system. I don't know the sort of faith that I can put behind this, but I've heard a school like Harvard would rather grant some one a degree rather than admit their acceptance was wrong and dismiss them from the school. I only say this because Duke was at the top of the list of graduation rate and I think they regard themselves just as highly. I also believe there is a lot of pressure to make sure athletes maintain academic eligibility, but sometimes this pressure is placed on the teachers so that the top athletes can still compete. However, I agree with you in that I should not stereotype all athletes.

hah, our cabinet declared some weeks ago that schoolbooks are for free now

That's a much better system even if the books are hard to come by. The big scam going on here is that a new edition of the same book is released every year, for the most part, and the price continues to rise. There may be minor changes to the previous edition, if any, but it is quite often enough to render the old edition obsolete. Buying online is the only real way to save money. In high school you hear about contests to win $1,000 or $1,500 scholarships. While it's nice to win some money, that's really only 2-3 semesters worth of books. Big woop.

(My GPA dipped below whatever it was required to remain in AP. This was due to my not doing homework, which was due to slackery and the beginnings of substance abuse. I would typically ace tests and other in-school work, but had a lot of zero's due to homework not being submitted.)

Hehe, my high school career was similar. I'm actually very much against the idea of homework, but that is another conversation. So obviously I had issues with doing it. Although I would attribute my slackery to disinterest rather than abuse of substance. I remained in advanced math and science where the tests mattered the most in terms of grades. Classes like English and History (unfortunately) were based more largely on homework and colorful shoebox presentations and so my grades suffered. (One history teacher thought I'd learn my lesson if she announced my homework grade of 17/100 in front of the class. I actually just laughed wondering where even the 17 came from.) A book like 1984 was apparently only deserving of a multiple choice test rather than any meaningful discussion. (BTW if any one hasn't read it now would be a great time. Chilling.) But hey at least it's not banned.

[Mecca]

I know what you mean yet part of me thinks that maybe they should care. I know I do. It just doesn't seem right to me that our education system is what is funding and breeding athletes for the professional leagues while the NFL and NBA rake in the profit for not having to fund a farm system. Meanwhile millions of students are stuck paying off debt for the better part of thir unenjoyable adulthoods for having to fund a farm league for a sport they will never find interesting. I know Division I soccer often goes overseas to recruit players and there is really no way of rating them academically. They get free rides while, arguably, more deserving players get better grades, pay full tuition and ride the bench. I like the English Premier League's sytem of running an academy where athletes train AND study at the expense of the club. But that is an older and more established league to be sure.

What exactly makes a student more or less deserving of a scholarship? The division I athletes you see on TV are basically paying their schools with all the seats they sell for their games. If someone works hard in the classroom, that's great, get good grades; but the student athlete who has a barely lower GPA and manages to balance school with whatever sport they play is much more deserving IMO.