People seem to be misunderstanding what's going on around here:
- there is currently an unresolved dispute regarding past events (my ban); of which is slowly being "dealt with"...we'll see how that eventually goes.
- I never at any point spammed the forums or have done anything in retaliation towards the moderators for their unjust ban (note: being disputed)
- the reason why the moderators should address the dispute at all is to show to everyone that there wasn't a case of moderator abuse (as it stands, they can't disprove the abuse)
SO, when discussing NEW topics like Lucifer RECENT questionable activity (which was shortly followed by abuse), I did nothing to bring up the old dispute other than to show the pattern of behavior (avoiding the issue - trying to justify a simple mistake; after all "you're not paragons of virtue"). I'm well aware of the status of that dispute (should be forgotten by the forum users by now). Z-Man was the one to bring up the posting of the PM history in the first place.
So, Z-Man, how exactly are you sparing everyone again?
And I'll say this again: If you have nothing to worry about, then you have nothing to worry about; no conditions necessary.
@GonZap: that topic has been dropped; the issue is Lucifer most recent case of abuse (and now [again] Z-Man stepping in to try to justify it). I specifically mentioned when something was "another conversation entirely" as a means of leaving that topic "dropped" for the sake of these threads. I don't appreciate people continually getting the wrong idea just because I raise a valid concern (even you think Lucifer should behave "like an adult"; but have you seen his actual moderator abuse? More than just a questionable post at this point; he is giving everyone reasons to be concerned for themselves should they have a different opinion. That kind of oppression should not be allowed).
@Olive:
Olive wrote:it's been a while since i dissected a post, but under the delicious comfort of a bottle of Sangiovese I'll give it a go.
but that isn't even violating privacy; that is evidence to a claim I've made against you.
sometimes, incriminating evidence cannot be used because its obtained in an unrighteous manner or because it violates certain principles. To me, the privacy of our moderators is more important than the remote possibility you have been unjustly banned for spamming your gobbledygook.
Did you even read the first half of the sentence you're quoting? (lol) There is literally nothing revealing about Z-Man that would be in violation of the privacy that he (and everyone) deserves; OTHER THAN if he so chooses to hide his unreasonable behavior from the public by refusing to admit to his words in the PMs between him and myself (only if he chooses to hide something, would it be violating his "privacy" for me to post it without his consent). Again, there is nothing personally revealing or otherwise in violation of his privacy.
Besides how you don't even know what you're defending, you seem to be unaware of the reasons for my ban(s). If you're implying that I was the person who spammed the forums (gobbledygook?), then you're just as bad as an abusive moderator; you have no idea how wrong you are. If you're implying that my verbose posts are "spam", then you're only making an attempt to devalue my post (it would be like me saying, "you're drunk so nothing you say right now matters" which simply isn't fair for you - so I give you the respect of explaining exactly how you are mistaken in a manner that isn't vulgar or otherwise "lashing out" at you). Frankly, just move on yourself; (to everyone that tells me to "move on" without even understanding what they're talking about) if you are sick of reading then don't read. You make the choice to enter the thread, and you make the choice to participate or not. Don't put the responsibility of your personal preference onto me.
Olive wrote:but this isn't the point z-man is trying to make, this is my interpretation;
the grudge you hold against the moderating team blind-sights you from the fact that Z-mans proposition is actually very noble. You have been attacking the moderating team in every possible matter, dragging many threads off-topic for the sole purpose of discomforting them. Z-man is offering you a chance to "redeem" yourself and overcome this virtuous cycle of drama you have been dragging everyone into. The conditions safeguard you from emotional responses from the community and allow the community to objectively analyse the case before the inevitable diarrhea of epic proportions is unleashed over the thread. Considering the fact that the moderating team has absolutely no obligation whatsoever to answer your cries, I find the conditions more than reasonable.
You mistake a grudge for an ongoing dispute / recent events that aren't all that related to past events (other than the same base problem of moderator abuse). I harbor no grudge against them, which is exactly why I am able to ask for a dispute rather than to lash out at them.
Again, (for everyone) the recent discussions regarding Lucifer's questionable post and subsequent moderator abuse would have been brought up REGARDLESS of any past dealings (put simply, I calls em like I sees em). No amount of past history (or lack thereof) would change how I'm approaching this situation other than my previous exposure to their unruly behavior (which isn't bringing anything up from the past, but I have evidence I can show everyone to prove this behavior should they question that judgement).
So, this isn't an "attack", frankly if they feel it's an attack that would mean they actually have something to be concerned about (like the public actually finding out their true colors). Like I keep saying, if they have nothing to worry about, they have nothing to worry about (meaning no amount of ACTUAL attacks would have any real effect anyway - assuming they were fair and just moderators). Stop trying to label things like that onto me for raising a valid concern; I'm sure you wouldn't like to be abused by a moderator (I'm talking actual abuse - overstepping boundaries to negatively affect you in some way), so what would you do? If they completely failed to justify their actions, wouldn't they seem like bigoted and abusive moderators to you? Now if you saw this behavior continuing and you see it affect other users, would you just stand by and watch? No matter who it is, abuse isn't deserved and I will solve the problem before it affects more innocent users.
Olive wrote:
you paraphrased the following a gazillion times
you are unreasonable and refuse to actually justify my ban(s)
to me, your bans are justified 100% by the sole fact you are upsetting numerous people for no apparent reason. It's not uncommon for moderators to give time-outs to keep discussions from heating and trailing. Your GID still works, right? In all seriousness, what is the problem here? Is it a matter of principles? Is there a deeper, transcendental issue I'm overlooking? If you hate these forums so much, why don't you just leave? If you wish to stay, can't you man-up and get over it?
Yes, there is an issue you are overlooking. That issue is that the moderators don't want to be known as tyrants and/or abusive and/or unjust/unfair; that is the entire reason why they even bothered with the dispute in the first place. That being said, I was (and sort of still am) disputing that issue with them, and THEY are the ones to back out (first Lucifer, then Z-Man after taking that responsibility for him). Neither of them has shown they can be reasonable / they blatantly ignore evidence; backing out essentially is them labelling themselves as abusive moderators as they do not care if a user was mistreated or not (they'd rather try to justify a mistake than to admit to it).
Put simply, the issue you're overlooking is their own hypocrisy; they start something they can't finish.
As for my bans being justified: They currently are not (remember the ban reason was "being a sexist ass"). And no amount of me upsetting users (after the fact) will justify that ban reason. Furthermore, there is no reason for them to give me a "time-out" either, as I'm not the one stressing over this.
If you can seriously ask if I hate the forums, you don't know me well enough. To give you an idea, I had to ask Tank Program and Z-Man if they wanted me to leave the forums (if they said "yes", I would have left) because of the abuse I was getting (sure seems like their choice to ban me without valid reason to was a way of pressuring me to leave the forums). In short, no, I don't hate the forums and I'd do anything I can to help them (including making sure that not a single other user has to be subject to Lucifer's mistreatment ever again; sorry for giving a shit about you guys too).
Manning up and getting over it: is kind of a sexist thing to say - regardless, there isn't really anything for me to man up to. On the contrary, the moderators are the ones failing to admit to the abuse that
everyone can see.
Olive wrote:
If you want to try and show how I've been insulting to you, I will gladly PROVE to everyone that what I say isn't insult, but fact. When I say things like "you disgrace yourself", it's because you do; when I show you disrespect, it's because you're not a respectable person
this statement is self-contradictory and proves writing this post is essentially a waste of my time, but damn this Sangiovese is good so no worries.
I will hit the submit button with reluctance, as it only adds to the nonsensical. Yet, I wish to show my support to the moderating team. My apologies to the community, I could not restrain myself.
You probably shouldn't have posted given your thoughts on all this...
If you're going to say something is self-contradictory, the least you can do is say how it is.
If you're talking about the respect thing, the answer is simple: respect is a two way street. You can't earn respect without being respectable in some way; and you can expect to receive any respect without showing some (for others AND YOURSELF). Respect has less to do with ego than you think (except for those obsessive cases), so it's not some sort of competition or "fight" in itself; it is merely addressing another person at a certain level of respect - the two way street. There is no emotion involved in adjusting the level of respect you show others unless you seem to have a personal problem with it (a problem with showing someone more respect than you think they deserve) and even not that's not always the case.
Overall, I think you (along with some other users) misunderstand the purpose of my recent posts.
(don't make the assumption that I'm bringing up old disputes just because Lucifer has RECENTLY abused his moderator status)
@comguygene: You are confused about what's going on. I was going to post the PMs anyway. This is what they felt was a "threat" as it contains incriminating evidence against them. In fact you will probably see this part of the discussion in the PMs, so you will be able to fully understand Z-Man's position on this.
The fact remains that there is absolutely nothing stopping me from posting it, and no conditions need to apply; that was the case before they even made the proposition. Making the proposition at all is a petty attempt to assert their authority in an unnecessary way (really, why would I comment or post within 96 hours anyway, think about it - what are they afraid of that they wish to silence me). Like I said, if they have nothing to worry about (if they're right) then they have nothing to worry about (no amount of calling them out on anything will work before they are right and that would be proven).
Let me put it another way: I shouldn't have to compromise on this anyway; yes it's a simple demand, but really they are trying to test their limits far too much.
Z-Man is a little bit of a sissy if you ask me; considering his position on posting the PM history this whole time, he should just get it over with; no conditions needed.
But I'll remind everyone again: the PM history has NOTHING to do with Lucifer's recent moderator abuse.
Regardless of any PM history or any past bans and disputes, this current issue would have still been brought up, and that's all I am trying to discuss as the other dispute is being dealt with by someone else (as in, why are you telling me to drop it when you're the ones who can't?).
Z-Man brought up the PM history as a means of trying to disprove my claims; that I was already subject to his unreasonable behavior, and also to defend his position as a competent "support person" because of how refusing to settle a dispute makes that look.
If any of you have a problem with that, take it up with Z-Man for bringing up the past in detail.
So again, my recent posting has nothing to do with the past, only has to do with recent events.
Funny how they manage to avoid the issue yet again.