Lower the Rubber

[sinewav]

Ok, I'm sorry I called everyone wusses. I'll try to keep those thoughts to myself and not let them leak out my fingers, haha.

[Flow]

As I understand after talking to Concord last night in the test server he wants these settings to replace old fortress settings. Which in turn would mean tournaments like ladle would be changed. I think a lot of people have fun with ladle and fortress the way it is. Does this necessarily have to replace the current fortress settings? Couldn't this be just a whole new kind of game mode/division? I just don't see why one has to rule, seems to me like they could both exist.

[Gaz]

Looks like the long, long, LONG discussion we had in elmo's thread word, psy, phyto and me hasn't changed anything. Everyone is still attacking each other, there is like 0 respect towards each other. All I can see when I read is people insulting people because they have a different opinion. Just grow manners damnit.

None is a coward and none is a pro here. Nobody gets paid as far as I know.

+1 zapo

But i get paid, by R, they ask me to play horrible in ladle and in return i get 30 dollars.

[Concord]

see, I think the game being harder is a good thing

that's basically what it comes down to, isn't it?

[vov]

You remove a semi-important move to current fortress playstyle and add a lot of connection-dependency, so yes, it gets harder to play simply because you don't know where your opponent is.

Edit: btw, I don't believe your "signed the petition" list, at least according to what I heard from people I talked to.

[Gonzap]

it's not about it being harder. It's about it being fair. Laggy players already suffer from it and the rounds are harder for them. With these settings it will only make the team with the most local players win.

But I guess lag is irrelevant. Idk, maybe take a look at ct ladle losses and count how many we lsot in us servers and how many we lost in eus ervers, I could do that if I had time or wanted to but I won't. I know for a fact we lose way more in us than eu. Maybe someday I support this with facts.

Anyway, you want to try it out? fine, set up a tourney like ladle but with the new settings and accept feedback. We'll see how it turns out.

[Concord]

it gets harder to play simply because you don't know where your opponent is.

please explain how this works. I don't understand how "you don't know where your opponent is." It's not like there's more lag.


the only argument I'm hearing now is lag, since the other arguments were proved to be false within 24 hours of testing. It's going to take some testing with the various rubber settings to find some that work, and those aren't necessarily the settings you experienced in the Zero's sumo bar, though it seems popular enough. I think people are reacting to the halving of ping rubber from the normal of 3 to 1.5, rather than the reduction of base rubber itself. Players from both continents were enjoying the fort server and I didn't hear many lag complaints while I was there.

[vov]

it gets harder to play simply because you don't know where your opponent is.

please explain how this works. I don't understand how "you don't know where your opponent is." It's not like there's more lag.

About lags:

...

This. All these moments when you slide or your enemy approaches you with a huge lag-o-meter it is just luck who dies whereas with 5 rubber both will survive or the better one will be able to kill with less luck and more skill. Normal transatlantic ping is already too big now. All open field to semi-closed-quarters encounters I had in the sumo server ended up with either lucky lag or 2 people too scared of it and turning away.
I would really hate to see all fortress replaced with this. It works for sumo though given good pings and stable connections, but that's very idealistic.

read it, answer already given. In short, situations which you barely escape right now will kill you with those settings and it gets luck-based/uncertain.

The other argument is that a lot of people prefer the current playstyle which you want to replace.
The underlined word is the important point if you haven't got it yet.
Do not replace it, still my opinion. Making it a new thing, all fine, people who don't like it just won't care. Your way, people will care and as it looks many will be against it.

[Concord]

so whereas guessing wrong before almost killed you, now guessing wrong kills you. is that it?

with 5 rubber, players who guess right got no reward. the extra rubber hid good play and hid bad play. that was the whole idea of getting rid of it.

[vov]

So the skill of fortress is in guessing instead of in the good moves? Damn you, I had it wrong all the years!

[RoterBaron1337]

LOWER THE RUBBER NAOW!

he just shows how much ingenuity he can offer by opening a thread, which was about time to make imo,

the rubber in my eyes is a waste of space in the HUD, delete it..

its about time to hit random keys.. since guessing is way better then doing good moves

its about time we change stuff

YES WE CAN!

[Concord]

So the skill of fortress is in guessing instead of in the good moves? Damn you, I had it wrong all the years!

anticipating what your opponent will do instead of using your rubber security blanket to bail you out when you get caught, yeah, pretty much.
this is how every sport works. you have anticipate what your opponent will do, and if you guess wrong, you get beat. Rubber is the equivalent of forcing Messi to slow down after he dribbles by you so you can catch up.

[vov]

No, Concord, what you mean is where the enemy is gonna be, not where he is at the moment of thinking, which is what I am talking about. It is a whole other concept.
If you do not even know where Messi is (lag), how can you catch up without him slowing down (rubber)? Not where he is gonna be, but where he is.
You are not even replying to what I say, do you finally get it?

[sinewav]

First, lag isn't a good argument because lag is always a factor in every server. Second, "I might not be able to escape such-and-such trap" is also not a good argument because there are innumerable situations where you "might" die at any given point. That's part of the game.

I suggest people actually play with these settings. You will find that it is very easy to adjust to them.

This change has the potential to make Fort more accessible, IMO. Right now the grind is the biggest stumbling block to new players. If double-grinding isn't an option, then that is one less thing a new person will get scolded for. If center attacks are more challenging, you will have fewer "shuffle wars" (remember Mega Fort and how your teammates would jack you out of position-1?). In essence, it simplifies the grind, purifies it from all the goofy little tricks and turns.

Low rubber doesn't make people play safer and make Ladles boring. Being afraid to take risks does that, which happens in any competition. Did any of you see the yawn-fest in yesterday's final with Luffy attacking Soul? If the rubber was 20, that would not have made it any more exciting.

[vov]

This change has the potential to make Fort more accessible, IMO. Right now the grind is the biggest stumbling block to new players. If double-grinding isn't an option, then that is one less thing a new person will get scolded for. If center attacks are more challenging, you will have fewer "shuffle wars" (remember Mega Fort and how your teammates would jack you out of position-1?). In essence, it simplifies the grind, purifies it from all the goofy little tricks and turns.

...until people will develop the new way of starting, which will be harder to pull off due to lower rubber. I imagine a tunnel similar to the double grind but instead of LL,RR it will be LL,LRRR. Which is then less accessible for newer players because of more turns.