How to make that game more popular?

[sinewav]

I've been holding my tongue here, but I've got something to say about why this game isn't more popular -- and there is basically nothing we can do about it. But first, this...

How about we change up the title screen a bit to give the bare basics of the game mechanics?

That idea broke down because of the difference in international keyboard layouts. Even so, Z-Man seemed on with the idea of changing the default controls to arrows. I personally think arrows are the way to go. The other control players should know about immediately is the camera change because it really commands their game experience. A pre-game graphic that tells you the basic controls, how to change them, and how to turn off the graphic off too, would probably help a lot of people. But that's not going to keep them online and I don't think there is anything you can do about it. Here's why:

Too. Much. Rubber.

I'm a lightcycle freak you know. I don't just play Armagetron, I also play FLTron. The FLTron player base is the same size as Arma's -- yet they have no special game modes and almost no customization options outside of number of players, teams, grid size, and "turbos". I've spent time talking to FLTron players about Armagetron. Those who know it all pretty much say the same thing. "It's farking stupid, you can touch the walls."

I don't think special game modes ruin the game for newbies, I think high rubber does. There are way more HR servers running at any given time than Fort/Sumo. New players have a greater chance of landing there first and getting wholly turned off by the game. But most HR server owners and players won't see this thread and if they do, they don't care to do anything about it. Would they suddenly play with low-rubber to help make a better experience for new players? Ha!

So keep talking about pick-up or whatever. It doesn't matter. A certain percentage of the total number of players will eventually migrate to Fortress. The problem is increasing the base. People aren't attracted to Arma because those who come looking for a "Tron-game" usually get an unpleasant surprise when they box someone in and that player waltzes right out.

[Z-Man]

sinewav: check out the snapshots with a fresh user.cfg. I consider the "Players don't know how to turn" problem solved. The "players don't know how to accelerate or kill" problem is still there, of course.

About the 'acceptable' doc placements: those are where a user expects documentation and where it is useful. On the web, along with the download, or in the game itself, in a context sensitive way. Explain multiplayer when the player first enters the multiplayer menu. The installed HTML documentation is largely ignored, nobody likes to alt-tab to a browser while playing a game. Opening a browser window from within the game should be reserved for cases where doing so has benefits for the user, like...

Ya we could do the videos but how we can add them to the Arma client without your approval. and even adding them to the wiki i am not really sure that newbies would eventually find about wiki that quick.

Well, if the client can open the videos in a browser, it can just open the wiki page instead and won't need updating every time a new tutorial is added.

And are bots a real problem? If so, authentication would not stop them. Compared to writing a full featured bot that enters as a player, writing a throwaway authority with infinite accounts is trivial.

They actually help alot i can hardly see any bots going into the servers. I know its not the perfect option to it but nevertheless it is helping.

And the tiger wall in our backyard is working well, too, we haven't had any tigers in the house yet.
Let me paraphrase the question: are there actually any bots that try to join games and cause trouble by inactivity?

Also, obligatory:


Word: 3) is not a problem, that bit works well. I didn't have your 2) on my list in that form, the general instability is part of 1), but yeah, keypresses also cause breakdowns. So four reasons.
My 2) The format is too limited, you can show, but not explain properly.
My 3) The target audience does not know how to play back the recording.

[Lackadaisical]

nvm

[sinewav]

sinewav: check out the snapshots with a fresh user.cfg. I consider the "Players don't know how to turn" problem solved.

Oh right, I see. For some reason I thought only 0.3x had that. u rok.

[Z-Man]

sinewav: check out the snapshots with a fresh user.cfg. I consider the "Players don't know how to turn" problem solved.

Oh right, I see. For some reason I thought only 0.3x had that. u rok.

Even if it only was in 0.3x, it would not matter. We should start the proper branch for 0.4.x stable soonish before really crazy stuff gets added to the trunk again.

[sinewav]

We should start the proper branch for 0.4.x stable soonish before really crazy stuff gets added to the trunk again.

Totally. And not to get too far off the subject, I'm nervous about that since I get half the framerate in .3x as .2x, so I'm hoping .4x is more like .2x and less like .3x.

[Phytotron]

The development of some decent FFA servers is something we should discuss.

::cough cough::

Other thing is, at this moment in time, I don't think there's much need for a bunch of new FFA servers, regrettably. People are hardly playing the ones up now. Spamming up the server browser with a bunch of new servers won't help that, just cause everything to become more congested and buried. Who wants to wade through all those servers, many of which have meaningless names and server descriptions (or lack description at all)?

Reducing the amount of server spam, especially in terms of redundancy and/or clan vanity servers, might help. Browser sorting of game mode type might, also, in the sense that I think (though could be completely wrong about this) that given the presented choice, most new players would be more apt to want to start on the more basic/simpler/core gametype before trying other stuff, at least to get their feet wet. (Of course, I would also make the same assumption about practicing in the local game first, but a lot of kids seem to make skipping to online multiplayer the first thing they do, before even knowing how to play sometimes—addressed earlier.) Then once sorting implemented, making a prominent admonition in documentation might encourage that as well.

Oh, and as much if not more important: development of the local game into something appealing and fun (and possibly even required to be played before coming online, as I mentioned earlier). I've written a lot of stuff about that, too, how it could be made better (separate from the idea of a playable tutorial). I tried to do a search of my posts for some examples, but when entering "local game" the stupid search automatically ignored "game," and apparently I like the word "local" because it turned up 81 results, and I don't feel like browsing through those at the moment.

[sinewav]

...and possibly even required to be played before coming online, as I mentioned earlier.

The strange thing about local games compared to online is this: All the online have totally different feels compared to the local game. Most have totally jacked-up rubber and crazy cycle_delay, speed, etc... The servers most similar to the feel of a local game are the Fort/Sumo ones, but "zone-centric" play is much different than local play. Either way, newbies are forced to jump headfirst into a completely new playing environment. The only thing they can take with them is how to turn and accelerate -- and really, that's not to hard to figure out.

I like your idea of the attract screen. Is it possible to execute a series of center_messages like "drive close to a wall for speed" and "use such-and-such keys to glance" during the playback?

[Kijutsu]

I honestly think it's the type of game and "poor" graphics that make it less popular, most people just think games like this are boring or too weird. You can try some better marketing and tutorials and all that crap but I doubt it would make a huge difference.

My opinion, don't trip.

[INW]

"poor" graphics

minecraft
But yes, the rest is a correct opinion.


O what a flashback!

[-*inS*-]

on pickup: learn to be instructive to newer players, really not that hard

[Phytotron]

...and possibly even required to be played before coming online, as I mentioned earlier.

The strange thing about local games compared to online is this: All the online have totally different feels compared to the local game. Most have totally jacked-up rubber and crazy cycle_delay, speed, etc... The servers most similar to the feel of a local game are the Fort/Sumo ones, but "zone-centric" play is much different than local play. Either way, newbies are forced to jump headfirst into a completely new playing environment. The only thing they can take with them is how to turn and accelerate -- and really, that's not to hard to figure out.

Well, for one, earlier I had in fact been talking about just the very basics, not wacky settings or special game modes. But in that particular paragraph from which you quoted, note that I was refering to some eventual, better, more elaborate local single-player game, which would have a great deal more to it than does the one now, probably including varying physics. And then that, ideally, guiding and transitioning new players to online servers with more standard physics and game types via browser sorting. Just so we're clear. (And actually, I'm not sure that I feel quite right about restricting people in some way before coming online—say, having to play x amount of time locally, or reach a certain level in an expanded single-player game, or progress through a tutorial, what have you. It's just an option. This is all spit-balling, after all.)

Still, it confounds me that even as it is now so many players don't so much as look at the local game before coming online, regardless of how simple or dissimilar it is to most of the popular servers. There is a great deal to turning (and obviously I don't mean spazzy multibind shit) and acceleration—additionally, timing, anticipation, camera work, recognition of surroundings, an introduction to rubber, and so forth. Those are the most basic fundamentals someone has to get down before being competent at anything else. Get some of that down, and concepts from fortress and such make more intuitive sense and are picked up much more quickly, and don't need all this extra explanation or tutorials—let alone dense wikis or blogs or videos or people getting bullied and abused by existing players. Like I said, the core gameplay translates to the special game modes, not vice versa. And this isn't just theoretical. I've encountered players who have actually spent time with the local game (usually ones outside of their teens, who have some sense, patience, and less bravado), who come online and were at least competent players from the get-go (if you're familiar with a guy called mot1, he was a prime example). Even as it concerns fortress et al, those of us who had already been playing for some time when those were introduced instantly got it; it was obvious what to do. Even if some "fortress guide" had existed, we wouldn't have needed it.


Incidentally, regarding the current default local settings being not only similar, but identical to most of the fortress/sumo servers, well, I've said before I don't like that. At minimum, I think the cycle_speed should be returned to 10. Yep, it had always been 10 up until, and I think even some time into, 0.2.8.x.

[Mecca]

Well, this game has very low appeal to anyone who isn't already interested in tron IMO.

-There are plenty of other games out there that are free, have "better" graphics, and many of them also have things to look forward to as you get better and or play more.

-I understand that the reason the graphics are the way they are is because this is a Tron clone; but are potential players going to care? Of course not.

-There are no ads for this game... anywhere... (just stating the fact)

I feel that people would almost rather watch people play this game rather than play it themselves. I play Tron on a projector at school sometimes when I have some free time. Friends walk in....

Friends: OH MY GOD! ARE YOU HACKING!?!
Me: No.
Friends: OH MY GOD! YOU'RE GOING TO DIE! YOU GOT BOXED IN!
*gets out of large box I put myself in to keep other players away from me*
Friends: OH MY GOD! YOU'RE SOOOOOOOO GOOD!

Never do they ask if they can play or where they can download the game. However, I have had a number of people ask me about how they can get started on playing League of Legends when they see me play it.

Not quite sure why that is.

Graphics?
Complexity? Maybe the game just appears to be too difficult to play or something?
No female characters with their boobs hanging out? (You would be surprised...)

Maybe if players would set up live streams on http://www.own3d.tv/ and stream frequently, this game would get more publicity and possibly attract more players.

[þsy]

Insa, isn't that an example of how difficult it is for a new player?

Supposing a newbie manages to join a pickup - following similar instructions to those (which I personally doubt 95% of new players would have the patience/understanding for), they'd then have to figure out how to play during a match. And when people have tried this in the past, instead of helping and teaching, they just tend to get kicked and banned for ruining a pickup match!

And it's that process which is discouraging people from fortress

[Word]

I could be wrong here, but I think that many Arma players aren't like usual video game fans. Many people here don't play anything else for so many years (except if it's something like FLtron), and compared to larger communities like 4chan, GTA, Assassins Creed, Crysis or WoW. These communities have so many subgroups that you can't possibly know everyone there. Our community is like a small village compared to these games, and I like that. I don't see growth as something that is throughout positive.

If you want to attract more players and keep them, I'd suggest you exploit (using the best meaning of the word) and improve the one factor that makes it so different from other games:

customisability

Players and hosters are able to change almost everything in the game, it's open source, and there are just a lot of things you can do with the look, the server settings, your cycle and other things. I think we would get far more long-time players if these things were easier than they already are.

During the last 30 years most gamers were teens, now these teens are growing up and get married, but they still play games. Maybe I'm wrong here too, but when you're adult you most likely don't have enough time or dedication to win a lot of tournaments - you just want something you can do in your spare time. Making a moviepack is perfect for that.