Osama is dead now.

[Mkay1]

That works, but phytotron will come up with a better word.

[syllabear]

In his thus abscence, I'll give it a go with "honor"?

Apparently it was his youngest wife? (Just heard it in passing on sky news)

[sinewav]

What, do you think that makes a difference? That he used a woman as a shield? To most in that region of the world, women are property. If anything they would think he was smart for using the tools at hand to protect himself and she would be a good wife for doing her duty.

[Hoax]

Damn right

[owned]

Phytotron, I'm glad you managed to steer this conversation away from some of the crazy stuff that was being mentioned on here earlier. I was getting really annoyed at the way the conversation was turning.

I agree with almost everything you say, but for a few things that I'll mention now.

Is this actually politically convenient for Obama? Will he really benefit in any substantial way? I doubt it. Think about it. How many of you genuinely believe that the right wing and tea party extremists are suddenly going to change their tone, agenda, and incessant vitriolic attacks and get on board with Obama's (centrist) agenda? Please, get real. This "we're united again" nonsense is just emotionalism; it's part of the infotainment.

I think the biggest benefit to Obama is this: He gets a major foreign policy acheivement that is not only important to all Americans, but can also be easily stated in one sentence. Barack Obama killed bin Laden. Other foreign policy victories, like START, or improved negotiations with other countries, are not nearly as important to the American people, and are much more complicated. I think that this action is likely to pull many uninformed voters onto his side. I can conceive of many people who would vote for him because "he got Osama." I think that this event also fights the right's constant criticism that Democrats are "weak" on national security.

Of course, as the election is 18 months away, we can't tell exactly how much effect this event will have on the overall outcome, but I think it'll at least serve to raise his popular vote percentage by a decent amount.

Also, watching C-SPAN, they took a call from some guy, an adult in this case, who, from what I picked up, runs some 9/11 memorial something-or-another in NYC. I was flabbergasted when he said, "we just killed the cancer with one shot." Say what?

4) Is it possible that some people are so ill-informed and lacking in comprehension that they believe killing off bin Laden now ends al-Qa'ida, and possibly terrorism in general? I mean, this isn't a state or a military; it isn't even comparable to organised crime and a mob boss being taken down. This isn't like Hitler's death and V-E day, but some seem to be treating it as though it is.

Of course those arguing that Al-Qaeda will die solely because of this are overstating it, but I do think that Al-Qaeda was dealt a significant blow with Osama's death. It's important to remember that Osama, while not very active in the day to day operations, was the figurehead of the organization, and was the main cause of donations and recruitments. Now, with Osama's death, there will be a huge power vacuum in the organization and the next leader will have trouble 1. Getting support from all the disparate factions that Osama had held together by power of his charisma, and 2. Getting the money that Osama was able to get due to his connections.

It's also important to remember that Al-Qaeda is not very strong right now. The US killed a string of lieutenants recently, and the wave of democratic movements in the Middle-East has weakened Al-Qaeda's in the region. The death of Osama has just dealt another blow to an organization that was hurting already. I think there's no question that they won't vanish, at least not in the short term, but their power will be less than it was before.

[Mecca]

By popular(Mkay) demand... My views on this event:

- I understand why so many people are happy about his death; although I am not pleased with the celebration over it.

- I don't care either way at this point as my life has not been directly effected other than the annoying security at airports.

- I would think that the terrorists either don't care about Osama's death and will continue with their usual operations, or they will be pissed and will try to strike back.

- I think way too many resources went into finding and killing this guy.

- People need to stop and think about what they get out of revenge besides a good(is that the right word?) feeling.

[wildcat]

I watched some video today of a College Basketball Coach who's brother-in-law/best friend was killed in the 9-11 attacks. He stated the night he found Osama was dead was the first night he slept without a sleep aide. It's hard to imagine how hard it would be to sleep at night knowing the person responsible for your families death is alive and living it up. Don't forget that while 3,000 ppl died that day, they all had family affected. Alot of children without mothers/fathers and vise versa. I just listened to some songs written after 9-11 and I can remember exactly where I was that day and how I felt. Im glad Osama sleeps in the sea tonight.

[sinewav]

It's hard to imagine how hard it would be to sleep at night knowing the person responsible for your families death is alive and living it up. Don't forget that while 3,000 ppl died that day, they all had family affected.

So maybe you can understand why people want to kill Americans so much. Since 11-September our country has been responsible for literally hundreds of thousands of deaths. All of those people had families (except the people who died with their families when we killed them). That's millions of people in the Middle East who aren't sleeping well, and are taking their irritation out on us.

Vote for a better foreign policy and you'll sleep better too.

[Mecca]

It's hard to imagine how hard it would be to sleep at night knowing the person responsible for your families death is alive and living it up. Don't forget that while 3,000 ppl died that day, they all had family affected.

So maybe you can understand why people want to kill Americans
so much. Since 11-September our country has been responsible for literally hundreds of thousands of deaths. All of those people had families (except the people who died with their families when we killed them). That's millions of people in the Middle East who aren't sleeping well, and are taking their irritation out on us.

Vote for a better foreign policy and you'll sleep better too.

I think the two situations are a little different. Wildcat presents a situation where there is a single target, you present a situation where the target is a group of people.

I would also argue that our country isn't solely (spelling? wrong word?) responsible for those deaths. If you aren't helping to fix the problem, you're part of it.

[Phytotron]

I think the biggest benefit to Obama is this: He gets a major foreign policy achievement.... I think that this event also fights the right's constant criticism that Democrats are "weak" on national security.

No way. It's too ingrained a slur, like "tax and spend liberals." Doesn't matter what happens in the real world. And many on the right are already trying to spin this as any credit to Obama being incidental to that which should be bestowed upon George W. Bush and the SEALs.

I watched some video today of a College Basketball Coach

Heh, are you one of those UK fans who's so bitter they won't even say the man's name?

Anyone who's wondering, he's referring to Rick Pitino (the drummer in the Guitar Hero: Metallica commercial, for some levity), and his brother-in-law Billy Minardi (now the namesake of a basketball mini-tournament called the "Billy Minardi Classic" hosted by UofL, as well as a dorm on campus called "Billy Minardi Hall").

I think the two situations are a little different. Wildcat presents a situation where there is a single target, you present a situation where the target is a group of people.

Wait, 9/11 and other acts of terrorism don't target groups of people?

If you aren't helping to fix the problem, you're part of it.

Coming from you, of all people?

[FFIIXXIITT]

Officially Osama Bin Laden was unarmed and was shot above the eye and in the chest. The woman "made an aggressive move" and was shot in the leg. He did not shoot and the woman was not used as a shield by him. The seals killed him mafia style and now he is "sleeping with the fishes." His body was put in a bag weighted with led and dumped into the ocean. F.Y.I.

[wildcat]

Heh, are you one of those UK fans who's so bitter they won't even say the man's name?

Anyone who's wondering, he's referring to Rick Pitino (the drummer in the Guitar Hero: Metallica commercial, for some levity), and his brother-in-law Billy Minardi (now the namesake of a basketball mini-tournament called the "Billy Minardi Classic" hosted by UofL, as well as a dorm on campus called "Billy Minardi Hall").

Considering most of this community knows nothing about college basketball, I didn't feel it mattered the name. Bitter? Of what? We kick the Cards tail every year. We get farther in the tourny. HAHA Morehead State? That's all I gotta say there. Let's save this argument until after the new Year when Mr. Pitino comes back to Rupp Arena

It's too ingrained a slur, like "tax and spend liberals." Doesn't matter what happens in the real world. And many on the right are already trying to spin this as any credit to Obama being incidental to that which should be bestowed upon George W. Bush and the SEALs.

I think the credit goes to both Presidents and their staff. Bush administration put alot of effort into finding the key players that helped them track Osama. Obama made some tough choices to invade a country without their knowledge which could had easily backfired. No point of saying one is greater than the other. Both did what they felt was best to do at that time. I respect both for that.

[Z-Man]

invade a country without their knowledge

Umm, what? According to all reports, the assault was coordinated with Pakistan. Pakistani forces were on site guarding the perimeter.

[Mecca]

I think the two situations are a little different. Wildcat presents a situation where there is a single target, you present a situation where the target is a group of people.

Wait, 9/11 and other acts of terrorism don't target groups of people?

Reread and comprehend.

1st situation:

Americans wanting to kill Osama.

2nd situation:

Middle Easterners wanting to kill Americans.

If you aren't helping to fix the problem, you're part of it.

Coming from you, of all people?[/quote]

Yes, coming from me. Is there a problem with that?

[sinewav]

1st situation:

Americans wanting to kill Osama.

2nd situation:

Middle Easterners wanting to kill Americans.

Why is it different to kill one person rather than a group of people? You seem to be saying it's Ok to hate and kill one person but not a group of people (even if the group of people practice a life and share views similar to that one person). It looks to me like you're making an completely irrelevant distinction and trying to say one is better than the other. Please clarify in a detailed and thoughtfully worded post.

Oh, and the "target" wasn't just OBL. It's "terrorism." It's a war on terrorism, not a war on Osama Bin Laden. First, Bin Laden launches a war on western values and kills 3000 Americans. Bush launches a war on terrorism and kill 500,000 Asians. Killing Bin Laden is just a special operation in a greater campaign (luckily for them they got him now because he was an increasingly irrelevant target).