Ladle 24 Voting Discussion

[owned]

I edited my list, is there anything I left out?

Brackets:
-top 2 seeded
-top 4 seeded
--3rd place match
--no 3rd place match
-random assortment
____________________________

(this next part is from sine)

"Which method to reduce game-time is most appealing?"
-Earlier start time for Ladle
-- 15/30/45 minutes earlier than now (17:45/17:30/17:15 GMT assuming we have over 16 teams)
-Split Ladle into two days
--Saturday and Sunday
--Opposing Sundays
-Finals are best of 3
____________________________

After how much time should the match be started automatically? (this is if both teams are at least partially there and my next question does not take effect)
-0/5/10 minutes after the game is scheduled
____________________________

If one team is late due to a previous match going long, how long should they have to start?
-5/10/15 minutes after they arrive
____________________________

Note: the --s are subpoints, which are only voted on if their specific point is voted for.

The way I see it, a topic will be opened for each of these questions, with each team captain voting on it. Voting will end on midnight of the 26th.

Also, can someone update the wiki? I would, but I don't know how.

[epsy]

You left out formatting

[owned]

What do you mean?

[dlh]

With such a small number of voters, I think only 6 teams participated last time, it would be best to limit choices to a minimum. Greater than three choices for one issue could make the results inconclusive. There shouldn't be sub-issues.

About seeding: I don't think this needs to voted on again, especially since random seeding got 100% of the vote last time.

I don't think splitting the Ladle up in to two days should be included, because no one has given any real times for this issue.

Here is my updated list on what to vote on:

• Ladle start time: same as always, 1 hour earlier, 1.5 hours earlier (these seem like reasonable choices)
• Finals are best of 3 matches: yes, no

About starting the match on time:

This can't be enforced by any settings, only players. Team-captains have the ability to issue the command START_NEW_MATCH. The best way to deal with this is common sense. Giving a few extra minutes isn't a huge deal. If a team is excessively late just start the match. The only issue is that the other team-captain might get angry when you do this, and try to restart the match… I saw this happen last Ladle after two rounds had been played (I don't remember the teams).

[1200]

This can't be enforced by any settings, only players. Team-captains have the ability to issue the command START_NEW_MATCH. The best way to deal with this is common sense. Giving a few extra minutes isn't a huge deal. If a team is excessively late just start the match. The only issue is that the other team-captain might get angry when you do this, and try to restart the match… I saw this happen last Ladle after two rounds had been played (I don't remember the teams).

If a team is excessively late, than the match is already excessively delayed at that point isnt' it?
It sounds like you're saying give the team a few extra minutes then if they are not ready then force start the match. But if you gonna force start the match eventually why not on time? I mean ideally there should be an admin present in every match to deal with every situaion fairly...

[sinewav]

...ideally there should be an admin present in every match ...

Right. But even still, that sort of stuff is going to happen occasionally. The point of voting on some of these options is we can control things like "best of 3 instead of 5" and "Ladle should be 2 days", where we can't control people not showing up on time or at all.

We all want the matches to start on time. But they don't always. We can't really control that. We can have people volunteer to admin servers, and do sometimes, but we can't MAKE someone be admin and are helpless if they do a bad job at it.

I think we should start a thread (separate from the voting) to talk about what we can do to get enough reliable, unbiased server administrators to help staff the Ladle. Maybe just having people sign up as "admin" with their GID on the wiki along with the teams would be enough. Although, this kind of undermines the team captains a bit, but might be necessary. And even if the matches are forced to start on time, we still have the problem of them running late, which requires the changes proposed already.

[1200]

We all want the matches to start on time. But they don't always. We can't really control that.

/me disagrees. If its in the rules there shouldn't be any conflict. If one team wants to start because its time to start the other team can not do anything but oblige. If the team that didn't want to start decide to re-start the match later than thats another problem we need to deal with.

We can have people volunteer to admin servers, and do sometimes, but we can't MAKE someone be admin and are helpless if they do a bad job at it.

Its not that hard to force start the match is it? Have we ever had a badmin affect the outcome of a match in fort???
One way to deal this is may be for each clan/team to provide a non-playing person to admin the matches maybe....but yea i guess this should be another thread.

Yea those are two things i think would make this competition more organized and professional, having an admin present in every match and at the very least 1st round matches starting on time.

[sinewav]

I think dlh and Goody have very strong points about not making sweeping changes with untested settings, when a few "tweaks" will help. Let's try a "less is more" approach and see if we can agree enough to vote.

And how does everyone feel about adding a section on the Challenge Board for volunteer Admins? Having a few people to staff the Ladle and help move the matches along really is a good idea.

Try this new revised list:

• team_max_players - 6v6/7v7/8v8
• score_hole - yes/no
• 2v2 - conquerable/un-conq
• scoring distribution (win/conq) - 6/4 or 10/0
• brackets - random / 2 seeds / 4 seeds

Additions...

• Finals are best of 3 - yes/no
• Ladle start time - same / 1 hour early/ 1.5 hours early
• Ladle should be on which day - Sat/Sun
• Ladle should be 2 days - no, one day only / Sat & Sun / Consecutive Sundays

If these don't solve our persistent time issue, then maybe we can experiment with LIMIT_TIME and scores during the three months we have until the next round of voting.

Let's hope there are clear winners like last time.

[DDMJ]

that looks good sine, but we need teams to sign up before voting

[sinewav]

that looks good sine, but we need teams to sign up before voting

Yes, please make a wiki page. I don't know how and don't have the time to teach myself at the moment (sorry, but true). As soon as it's up, I'll post the voting thread.

And for the wiki, can we link to the voting thread after it's been created? I guess I can do that actually; that's one of the few things I can do.

Oh and volunteer Admin sign ups too (name/GID). Doesn't that sound good?

[DDMJ]

done:

http://ladle.ath.cx

[2020]

We all want the matches to start on time. But they don't always. We can't really control that.

Its not that hard to force start the match is it? Have we ever had a badmin affect the outcome of a match in fort???
One way to deal this is may be for each clan/team to provide a non-playing person to admin the matches maybe....but yea i guess this should be another thread.

Yea those are two things i think would make this competition more organized and professional, having an admin present in every match and at the very least 1st round matches starting on time.

you got it 1200
all about timing
we can do it
we just need the self-discipline to get it right
is all

like the idea of a non-playing admin from each team
but my guess is everyone will want to be playing...
certainly a realtime arbitration system needs to be set up just in case there is an altercation...
the original solution has teamcaptains turn up at irc just to witness they were ready and present
checking in before each game just to make sure things start on time...

[custang]

Why do we need to vote on changing everything? The biggest problem is the time isn't it? Then why don't we just make the Ladle start 2 - 3 hours earlier, i think it runs very well how it is.

Or just change the day as i have said before to a Saturday so no one has to complain that they have work the next day and need to sleep.

Thoughts?

[ed]

Because different times/days work differently for different people.
Saturday Night is out for a lot of people as they have other things they'd prefer to be doing at that time.
Making it earlier in the day will mean some other players wont be able to make it.

It has become obvious though that the current length of the ladle is just too long for too many.
This is why we have the vote so that it will go with the majority to please the most people. It's really the only fair way to do it.

[sinewav]

Why do we need to vote on changing everything?

We don't. But some of these voting points are still new, like 6v6. And others, like seeding and 2v2 conquerable, continue to stir debate. Having these options available keeps the Ladle flexible with the tastes of the participants. But it's true, the time issue is most important. The current options are probably as close as we can get to compromise at this time (and we're running out of time).

I'll be making the voting thread tonight. I just want everyone to get one last look at this, just in case we missed something big (I don't think so). We still have a week and a half until the Ladle - that's plenty of time to vote.