Bowl 2 Discussion

[þsy]

I think I've been a bit confused - this isn't the Bowl as it has always been, but a weird mini-ladle that has acquired the name of 'the Bowl' which for some reason allows most teams to play but not all of them, and allows some players to play but not all of them - many of whom don't actually play tron any more (I count at least four)

This is a tournament to decide who is the best out of a certain group of players who have been able to be active over a recent period of time, not who is the best out of everyone at the moment

The Bowl has always been 'the big one', the one that everyone wants to win above any other fortress competition. For that reason, it should be BIGGER than normal ladles so the competition is HIGHER, not smaller and with less competition. This proposed Bowl is simply a smaller - and therefore less significant - ladle. The Bowl is more prestigious than ladle because it is bigger than a ladle, and this Bowl we're discussing here is therefore, due to its smaller size, even less prestigious than a normal ladle!

As insa suggested, if you want this to decide the best over the course of a season, it should be the top four teams. But for higher competition, you want more teams, not less. This Bowl occupies a weird middle ground which provides nothing other than a less competitive competition, which proves nothing

I look forward to the following month when the competition starts up again

[Bytes]

IMO 5 played could be changed to '5 on the clan roster'. Therefore players who can't play the ladle but are actively part of a team could still be eligible.

Secondly, what if there were 2 bowl 'leagues', a top 4 and a bottom 4 as decided by the seedings. Then it's exclusive and inclusive, all at the same time.

[sinewav]

I think I've been a bit confused - this isn't the Bowl as it has always been, but a weird mini-ladle that has acquired the name of 'the Bowl' which for some reason allows most teams to play but not all of them...

The reason you don't know why some people are able to play and not others is because you didn't take part in the discussion last April.

This is a tournament to decide who is the best out of a certain group of players who have been able to be active over a recent period of time, not who is the best out of everyone at the moment

Exactly, as planned. The Ladle already decides who is the best at a given moment. This month is was Team Unknown. Last month it was RoadRunnerZ. The Bowl determines the best team over the last 9 months. Not only does a team have to win consistently, they have to remain stable and active. Should we expect anything less from the best? It's a given that any group of skilled players can sweep in and win a Ladle. *cough Baylife cough* Can the get along enough to do this repeatedly?

The Bowl has always been 'the big one', the one that everyone wants to win above any other fortress competition. For that reason, it should be BIGGER than normal ladles so the competition is HIGHER, not smaller and with less competition.

So if there is less competition, Speeders should have no trouble winning in two weeks, right? I'll expect an easy victory from them. What is this "The Bowl has always been" nonsense? We had one Bowl, which was Ladle 22 on 7 June 2009. It was scarcely larger than the Ladle and didn't actually meet the requirements of TRONIC, which is a seasonal (4x year) event with 32 teams or more. We are not going to reach that goal, let us face reality. I mean, we could if ArmagetronAD suddenly explodes with players, but we can cross that bridge later.

This proposed Bowl is simply a smaller - and therefore less significant - ladle. The Bowl is more prestigious than ladle because it is bigger than a ladle, and this Bowl we're discussing here is therefore, due to its smaller size, even less prestigious than a normal ladle!

Bigger is better? Are you from Texas? How about harder is better? If you look back at Bowl 1, the competition wasn't any greater compared to previous Ladles. If you look at Ladle participation it hardly registers as a blip, followed by a steep drop off from Fortress burn-out. Plus we have had larger Ladles since!

As insa suggested, if you want this to decide the best over the course of a season, it should be the top four teams. But for higher competition, you want more teams, not less. This Bowl occupies a weird middle ground which provides nothing other than a less competitive competition, which proves nothing.

I agree with insa, but more teams is more competition in volume only, not difficulty. It think The Bowl does prove something. I think it proves one of these 8 teams will be the best of the year.

I look forward to the following month when the competition starts up again

Next month starts 3 Ladles of off-season play.

Remember, The Bowl is an experiment. It is a separate Fortress tournament that is tied into, but does not necessarily affect Ladle. The Ladle will always be there for you. But for those who want more, there is the Bowl. For as much dissent as there is, I'm confident this event will prove itself and the teams that reach the semifinals will be sweating.

[þsy]

Blimey! Yeah that's all fair enough, and you're right - the time for discussion was back in the planning stages for this Bowl, not now. Let's use this discussion as a pre-cursor for planning the next Bowl

More teams will always mean more competition, as there's more matches to play. As I said, I think this system occupies an unhappy medium - you either need a best of 5 between 4 teams, or a best of 3 between as many teams as possible. This current set up is a poor man's ladle with a dated roster, nothing more

Despite the first Bowl being almost identical to the ladle, it did have a higher participation than ladles at the time. With some cool trophy icon makers and a slightly different format, we could easily make the Bowl like a bigger and more prestigious ladle - the one to win sorta thing. It would be nice to reward clans/teams with a consistent and strong roster, but I think the game and its players are just too fluid for such a set up. I think SP's 5 player team is a perfect example of this

[bilbo baggins]

the winner of the bowl gets an ultimate seed for all the ladles in the next season: they get seeded into the final, prize enough for u

[S0lutai]

So, if you guys want to have The Bowl, it should take place on 28 April. I ran the numbers and this is what the fully-seeded bracket will look like (Sorry Phoenix, it doesn't seem fair):

Code: Select all

Rogue Tronners     16.32
Revolver           10.46
Redemption         10.15
Meet Your Maker     7.56
RoadRunnerZ         5.63
Crazy Tronners      5.00
Team Unknown        1.97
Speeders            1.08
------------------------
Phoenix             0.96  :(


   Rogue Tronners ___
                     |___
         Speeders ___|   |
                         |___
      RoadRunnerZ ___    |   |
                     |___|   |
  Meet Your Maker ___|       |
                             |___
       Redemption ___        |
                     |___    |
   Crazy Tronners ___|   |   |
                         |___|
     Team Unknown ___    |
                     |___|
         Revolver ___|

Now, there is still the matter of determining which individual players are eligible. You must have played for a team 5 times in the season, so teams with recent line-up changes my find themselves short-handed. Those who recently left teams might find that they are only eligible to play on the team they left. Playing on a 2nd squad does not count toward the 1st squad's results.

I'll put together a roster for each team later and if you guys find this arrangement acceptable, maybe we can have the event. Should be interesting.

I have a question... Are this brackets the official ones? or waiting for some change?
How will Speeders play with 5 members in this? with some active members and retired ones in this roster, seems quite impossible.

[ElmosWorld]

I have a question... Are this brackets the official ones?

Yes.

or waiting for some change?

No.

How will Speeders play with 5 members in this? with some active members and retired ones in this roster, seems quite impossible.

Up to them.

[sinewav]

This is the bracket. Speeders were not able to keep acive enough for a full roster. This is an unfortunate situation we were not able to predict one year ago. It would make sense to drop Speeders and replace them with Phoenix, but would this be fair to Rogue Tronners? I guess we could leave that decision up to the three teams involved, but I would rather just play ahead. I don't see that it makes much difference either way.

[Titanoboa]

It would make sense to drop Speeders and replace them with Phoenix, but would this be fair to Rogue Tronners?

Yes.

Although I guess we can't say "no more changes" about everything else and then go ahead and make a rule change about this. For the next bowls I'd say a roster of 6 (or at the very least 5) should be minimum. Anyway we'll discuss that later.

[sinewav]

Well, if Speeders wants to forfeit and Rogue Tronners doesn't care if Phoenix takes their place, then I guess there is no problem.

[bilbo baggins]

im sure i speak for my clan when i say phx is happy to replace speeders (obviously), and i am sure R wont mind because they are a respectful and honourable clan, but if speeders can rally there troops and bring up there 5 players it shouldnt be too much of a disadvantage to them and if they are willing to take on the challenge they are more than welcome, if not we are a safety net

[PokeMaster]

It should really be up to SP, since it is their spot.

[ElmosWorld]

It should really be up to SP, since it is their spot.

See how this bowl works then adjust appropriately for next year.

[DaGarBBaGeMAN]

If SP decides to give their seed to phoenix, or even combine teams or whatever, I'm sure no one in R minds

[bilbo baggins]

does anyone in SP want to make a desision then? we could have a discussion about a combined team of pure awsome on our forums if u like?