Apology

[Z-Man]

COULD YOU ALL PLEASE STOP RECOUNTING WHAT YOU THINK YOU DID AND WHAT OTHERS WERE DOING AND WHAT HAPPENED IN RESPONSE AND WHY AND WHAT HAPPENED AFTER YOU RECOUNTED IT? It's getting us nowhere. We can see perfectly what everyone did.

Psy: you bumped a long dead thread and added your (IMHO, not very insightful and even less relevant to the original topic) theories later.
Word: you claim you argued against it, but you didn't. You did not counter his thesis, at least not sufficiently.
None of that is as bad as the other party is trying to make it.

Nobody: ganged up to bully anyone, not here. In the other thread where Word made the harmless joke somewhat at Elmo's cost, yes.

Liz: you transparently trolled. Though everyone should ignore you and most already do, I should have warned you when you started, but I was busy moving. Tough. Doesn't matter because now you collect your repeat ban for your repeat offence, you know which one (starts with 'L'). Really, it's purely mechanical by now. Dunno how long yet.

Also, 99% agreement with Lucifer, the 1% being "gee, that is a bit harsh."

[Word]

You did not counter his thesis, at least not sufficiently.

So what does the PhD here say?
(ignore this if it's too long for a forum post)

[þsy]

Of all the things said and done here, it's Liz who warrants a ban?



Please lock

[Z-Man]

Yep. For one, it was her pointless unrelated attacks that derailed the conversation between you two. That alone would just have been a warning. But she did the thing she is not supposed to do and the simple fact is that if I don't ban her every time for it, she'll start to think she can get away with absolutely everything.

[Lucifer]

Only reason this thread is still alive.

Don't worry, there inS, I don't know what Z-man's got in mind, but if this discussion doesn't become peaceful soon, I'll lock it. First epsy, then Z-man, then I all tried to redirect the conversation and it continued course, so there's the one last attempt before it gets locked, if it needs to be locked.

So, at this point, I'm waiting for Phyto's public answer to mine and Z-man's posts, and possibly epsy's 2 francs.

[Lucifer]

Neither do those from people who make false equivalences or give certain people a pass by saying, essentially, "boys will be boys."

So are you now suggesting we give 2020 his well-moderated thread free from your own responses? Or are you willing to accept that you've received protection under the "boys will be boys" clause and move on? We can stop that protection anytime you're no longer comfortable with it.

Maybe somebody can bring some light here?

http://forums3.armagetronad.net/viewtop ... 2409unease

Where we mods got accused of everything from incompetence to cliquish behavior. I was hoping I'd have an opportunity to link that discussion here.

(It also shows Liz's repeat offender status and why she earned a ban here)

[þsy]

Z What is this dumb crap? What a silly post... You're really a piece of work - that's a laughably ridiculous claim, pure baloney. It's a cowardly way of dealing with this, you're either dense or stubborn, and I think you're full of shit

You're filling this forum with your crap, which is frankly full of frustrated kids - and you Z-man, you're really a piece of work. I think I'm about to vomit... What a moronic chicken

Note, post was briefly emptied by moderator action pending investigation, just in case the restoration makes the thread confusing

[Slov]

I didn't read the whole thread but I think we can all agree that Phyto *bullies* everybody on this forum, we talked about this before. Nobody likes his unnecessarily negative comments and no admin will ever do anything about it. Sine and especially Word then just kiss his ass.It seems like Word desperately needs his approval for some reason. lame
And I'm sure liz doesn't really care about the ban and I wouldn't either but that was a lame move also.
I used to love this forum and I still love the tron community but Phyto and the 2 kcidriders have really ruined it for me lately. And wasn't Phyto the one who complained about using gifs so they got banned? (not sure if it's true tho)
I have more things to say but I lost interest in this topic as I was writing. Please don't respond to my post with an essay, I won't read it. I'm not really mad or anything but this forum would be a lot better without these 3 constantly spreading negativity.

I'm not here to write long posts, just wanted to say I agree with gonzap, psy and the rest and that I'm on their side. Everyone that feels the same way should post. I think a lot of people do but they just don't want to get involved. I can't think of any person who would side with the 3 idiots.
This bs needs to stop. Z-Man do something.

edit: oh and if you want to see where Phyto enjoys posting bs the most, check out the What are you listening to thread. He tries to make everybody feel like shit for listening to music they personally like. Like really, why do admins let this shit happen?

and Cody had a really funny comment on page 11 but nobody noticed it

[Word]

OK Slov, have a nice day.

[Slov]

OK Slov, have a nice day.

<3

[þsy]

Edited, obviously.

Wait, WHAT!

Maybe you didn't understand... You can't moderate my post - i.e. change/delete it, if you're not willing to do the same for others

I'm not targeting or trying to make some point against the mods here - definitely not - but that is so inconsistent, c'mon!

[Phytotron]

Psy: you bumped a long dead thread and added your (IMHO, not very insightful and even less relevant to the original topic) theories later.

Bully. If I make a similar statement, or give someone else the kind of dressing-down I got from Lucifer, then I'm pilloried. But that's the thing, you guys get to decide what's deserving of castigation and what's not.

So, at this point, I'm waiting for Phyto's public answer to mine and Z-man's posts, and possibly epsy's 2 francs.

First, you missed the point of some of my comments, responding to and refuting stuff I didn't even describe or claim. I'll grant that that may be in part due to a lack of clarity and precision on my part; but hey, if I add more I get shit on for being too verbose. Can't win. But you also straight-up misinterpreted much of it. So, why should I attempt once again to pick that apart, and what will it accomplish, honestly? Especially when we apparently can't even agree upon a common set of facts; I'm being accused of setting up death panels. So, no, I'm not going to pick it apart and give you the response you want, admitting to things I don't believe are so. You already said you don't take me at my word, anyway. You want me to walk away from clowns? OK, done. Been trying to for the past few pages. I'm washing my hands of the whole thing.

Secondly, I don't know how you resolve all these double standards, including your own behavior, or the sentiment that "well, we expect it from these people, so it's OK when they do it, but if you so much at look at them you're in the wrong." That the person who instigates something is innocent, but the one who responds is not only guilty but even worse. I've never understood that, going all the way back to when you lot first got your mod powers; you can revisit all my arguments regarding that in the the relevant threads from the time, if you so desire. And Z-Man may recall the lengthy PM exchange(s) he and I had from around that time, where his arguments basically boiled down to, "yes, we're holding you to a different standard than that whole group. People who are expected to misbehave will be allowed to do so, and you'll just have to suck it up and take it, else we'll come down on you. It's all on you. It's your own fault for wearing that short skirt."

And don't give me the "don't feed the troll" admonishment, either. That approach doesn't work—it has never shown to on this forum, at least.


Lastly, Psy, what do you think of Lucifer's tongue-lashing of me, or Slov calling us idiots and reducing everything we've ever posted to "bs"?


Have a lovely weekend, everyone.

[þsy]

Lastly, Psy, what do you think of Lucifer's tongue-lashing of me, or Slov calling us idiots and reducing everything we've ever posted to "bs"?

It's not very nice But it's not any different to how you have spoken to me and others in this thread. But I have also spoken to people in less-than-polite ways as well, as have many others

Thus, it seems this discussion has boiled down to "who is the most guilty" rather than "who is guilty and who is innocent", and we're never going to come to any resolution on such a basis, with accusations of 'double-standards' being legitimate from all parties to all parties

What I sense is that people feel they lack a bit of respect on these forums, and it's up to all of us to change this. Let's give each other a bit of room to share ideas and discuss topics, appreciate that it's ok (and even good) to disagree on topics, but vital that we are polite and courteous during this process. And when things turn ugly, it's good to resort to the wisdom of Thumper - "if you can't say something nice, don't say nothing at all"

Maybe this opinion seems contrary to my previous thoughts, or maybe I just haven't had the opportunity to article my thoughts accurately enough for you to understand. Either way, let's give each other (all of us on here) the space we need to allow for change

I hope this post doesn't make anyone vomit (again) !

[Lucifer]

And that finishes the thread.

[Lucifer]

Ok, now that I've taken care of some business, I can make my post here (since we never lock threads without a last word of some sort).

Phyto: The difference between my "tongue-lashing" of you and your tongue-lashing of people on these forums is that I didn't label you and assault your character. I stuck to the behavior. Whether I was right or wrong in individual points rapidly reaches a level of irrelevance: consider how you felt, and how you felt you were right, and that if I were to add the additional step you often take of assaulting your character and harshly judging you, that is how people feel when you do it to them. You can lecture me on double-standards all you want, after you've fixed yours.

When I say "walk away from clowns", I mean "let them have the last word". They only make asses out of themselves, and they lose what they're after, which is getting your goat. "Trying to for the last few pages" is essentially "trying to have the last word". Who cares? If I weren't trying to moderate right now, I'd probably walk away and let you have the last word, I've done it plenty. It's not like I'm asking you to do anything I don't do, you know, and you DO know that.

Slov: The thread I linked to where it's 2020 vs The World is an example of when I jumped in to defend Phyto, and Z-man sorta did (but was willing to compromise to hear what 2020 never managed to say). THIS thread is an example where I jumped in on the other side. Think about what that means in relation to your post.

Psy: I edited your post because I was at work and suspected your account may have been compromised to Liz, because it was exactly the kind of crap she would do after a ban (although she's been a good sport about it for awhile). Because I was at work, I didn't have time to research my suspicions, so I had to leave it as is. Here is your post now, and I have restored it above:

Z What is this dumb crap? What a silly post... You're really a piece of work - that's a laughably ridiculous claim, pure baloney. It's a cowardly way of dealing with this, you're either dense or stubborn, and I think you're full of shit

You're filling this forum with your crap, which is frankly full of frustrated kids - and you Z-man, you're really a piece of work. I think I'm about to vomit... What a moronic chicken

For the record, I did PM the post to Z-man, so he'd still see it regardless.

All: Quit complaining about "equal treatment". You are all treated equally. You are each treated as individuals with the respect you have earned. This is not a courtroom, there is no law for there to be equality under. This is not a school where the same rules have to apply to everybody. This is a community where everyone has a place, and is given due acceptance (at least as far as the mods are concerned). Individuals get individual and personalized treatment, each according to his/her behavior both past and present. Nobody is discriminated against, and no matter how much of an ass you are, there is always a possibility for you to stop being an ass. That is equal treatment here. On the rare occasion when a lawful authority is needed, it's either because a crime has been committed, or some argument or other requires citing scientific research and/or logic. When it comes to these sorts of large disagreements, you are all, together, expected to work towards a peaceful solution. When moderators step in, and usually several people start complaining about moderator inaction several pages before one of us shows up, we do it because you have abandoned working together towards a peaceful solution and we come in to put a stop to it using whatever means we feel is necessary. Sometimes it's a straight-up lock, sometimes we join the discussion as referees (which we did here, first, before I went off on my own), whatever seems most appropriate. We're not perfect, that's why there are five of us that I can think of, to double-check each other.

And we don't often explain ourselves. Like Z-man said in a thread I linked here, regularly abusing the mods is expected and accepted here. But it doesn't change how we're going to approach things when there's a fight. We're not here to win popularity contests.

Z-man: If you want to unlock and give everybody a last word, knock yourself out.