Haha, cucumber! (SPLIT from snapchat)

[compguygene]

Honestly Lucifer, I reviewed my WwBot logs to see the IRC chat and the forum posts you made in context of how funny they were. They were funny, but I think you can be much funnier.

[Durf]

So, my family isn't acceptable to you? We're nota real family?

How many times do I have to ask "wtf is wrong with you"?
Where/How do you come to these conclusions?
Try quoting me on something as you make such a ridiculous claim; you only look like a whining child when you trying to make such false claims.
(Are your feelings hurt? Maybe calling me a poopie-head will make you feel better [<-figuratively literally->] don't make such a stupid, unfounded, hate-filled claim against someone based on an assumption. Clearly you are upset at something; maybe it's because you realized that you failed. But trying to assert assumptions about me is just plain stupid)

Your family, in this case, is irrelevant. No one here is obligated to care about your family or what they think.
In context:
I was sure to note how you have previously mentioned the lowest common denominator when dealing with what is offensive (remember? the whole "common sense" thing in the Nazi thread?).
Meaning, the loose rules you have within your family are far more lax than most definitions of "family-friendly".
Therefore, the rules regarding offering a picture of one's genetalia for your family are not acceptable BY YOUR OWN STANDARDS. (hypocrisy)

Lucifer, quit being an asshole. Read carefully next time.

Also, if you're going to make up a bullshit rule to enforce you moderator abuse in one thread, you better be consistent with that same ruling in all the others; unless you admit to abusive your moderator status??

[xXSyagehtllikXx]

Yep the dick joke was offensive. What if people with no dicks dont get the Joke? Tyrant Lucifer scores once again +1

[Lucifer]

So, my family isn't acceptable to you? We're nota real family?

Your family, in this case, is irrelevant.

Thank you for answering my question.

[Z-Man]

I said it before: I address the points I want to address based on my own priorities. For every sentence I write, you write a paragraph back. If I addressed all your points, the forum would explode.

Something that not a single user has access to determine for themselves (so really you could just be lying about it anyway just to increase the supposed value of your own opinion in comparison)

That's what you said. "YOU COULD BE LYING". Really, I could not in this case. Until you said that, the thought about doing so never entered my conscious mind. It's not that I thought I could do that and then stopped myself. "Oh, this is against the rules". "Oh, this would be evil". "Oh, I might get caught". No, none of that. It's not part of my thought model. I think/hope that is how most people work.

I'd still like to hear what Z-Man has to say and how he thinks offering a picture of one's genetalia is family-friendly.

You are still treating this as if it had not been an obvious joke (attempt). One of the reasons I think it is justified to call your outrage not genuine.

As for the family friendliness of penis jokes, well, there is considerable cultural variance (we touch on that on the rules page), but:

Haha, penis!

That's where the split thread title comes from, of course.

[aP|Nelg]

Off topic:

Honestly Lucifer, I reviewed my WwBot logs to see the IRC chat and the forum posts you made in context of how funny they were. They were funny, but I think you can be much funnier.

I hope you don't mind me messing around with your bot in pm when I'm bored btw

[compguygene]

Feel free! It's a supybot. If you want me to install any particular supybot extensions, just ask. I am glad to not be the only one using it.

[Durf]

So, my family isn't acceptable to you? We're nota real family?

Your family, in this case, is irrelevant.

Thank you for answering my question.

I couldn't expect a greater level of ignorance from you.
Being so selective as to blatantly ignore how hypocritical you are.
I proved how your own family's opinion is irrelevant to this discussion based on your own enforced standards on how to deal with offensive material; and you (as moderator) get offended by your own standards?
This is the kind of thing that I refer to when I call you moderators pitiful. I, quite literally, have the option of feeling pity for this immensely stupid behavior; but I don't since it was clearly a choice you made.
Good try in making it seem like I was just devaluing the opinion of your family (I haven't stated my opinion regarding what they had to say), but as usual, you only made an ass of yourself.

One thing you could do is start answering some of mine. Unless you feel that only you deserve to have your questions addressed..? (bigot)
You're a pathetic moderator.

I said it before: I address the points I want to address based on my own priorities. For every sentence I write, you write a paragraph back. If I addressed all your points, the forum would explode.

Something that not a single user has access to determine for themselves (so really you could just be lying about it anyway just to increase the supposed value of your own opinion in comparison)

That's what you said. "YOU COULD BE LYING". Really, I could not in this case. Until you said that, the thought about doing so never entered my conscious mind. It's not that I thought I could do that and then stopped myself. "Oh, this is against the rules". "Oh, this would be evil". "Oh, I might get caught". No, none of that. It's not part of my thought model. I think/hope that is how most people work.

I'd still like to hear what Z-Man has to say and how he thinks offering a picture of one's genetalia is family-friendly.

You are still treating this as if it had not been an obvious joke (attempt). One of the reasons I think it is justified to call your outrage not genuine.

As for the family friendliness of penis jokes, well, there is considerable cultural variance (we touch on that on the rules page), but:

Haha, penis!

That's where the split thread title comes from, of course.

If you addressed everything that I write to you, the forums needn't explode; plus you would be able to show the community how you aren't anything that I claim (which it's obvious that you are unable to, which is why you avoid things).
If you addressed everything said, things wouldn't have to be repeated and everything might be solved by now; instead you prefer to pussyfoot around and waste time by refusing to actually DEAL with something. (remember how I say "do you job"? Your job isn't to avoid issues)
Though I'd like to point out how you are unable to answer how the recent actions were not abusive; if you priority is to nit-pick at little details so you can attempt to redeem some respect for yourself, then you should be answering to everyone how and why Lucifer's actions were acceptable for a moderator to do. You have a chance to prove yourself and you focus on such stupid things from the past (further disgracing yourself by making the choice to avoid something that moderators SHOULD be dealing with).

Next: you're an ass. Deliberating misinterpreting my words to think I'm accusing you of something (get over yourself).
What I was saying by "you could be lying" is that you have lost the trust required to think of you as a non-abusive moderator (granted you don't do abusive things like Lucifer does, but you support his abusive actions without a thought for whether or not it was actually abusive - you simply don't care). That being said, you lack any and all credibility to prove yourself as trustworthy in that manner; plus your paranoia regarding the sock puppet accounts adds to the distrust.
This is because you went out of your way to look for sexist things in my posts / PMs rather than to deal with actual evidence; you have shown me how you care far more about your feelings and opinion rather than fact and if a rule was even broken. You're the type of moderator I can't trust.
Not to mention that this raises your competence into question: when I say things like "I'd be overqualified" I'm referring to how it is in my nature to explore all possibilities; you've just admitted to having a very limited mindset - given that you KNOW this about yourself, you'd think you'd at least TRY to be more open minded when dealing with disputes and addressing a user's post(s).

Z-Man, why do you think rule #7 was written? I'm not still treating it as if it wasn't an obvious joke because the fact is that it wasn't obvious. It may be obvious to your limited mindset, but there are many ways to interpret that (and given that his post was part of a larger spree of rage posting, it's more likely that he was just being an ass by trying to start a bullshit argument - using "oh it's supposed to be funny" as an excuse). The fact remains that a moderator should not have negatively contributed to a thread. The fact remains that not everyone would see that as a joke; the fact remains that you would (should) enforce the rule for everyone for any similarly questionable post.
You misinterpret my "outrage" (as you call it) by the joke for Lucifer's choice as moderator; I don't care about the joke. I care about how that post looks to every other potential user on these forums. And frankly, if you forget how anal you both we're regarding the "lowest common denominator" for offensive material, you are showing favoritism for yourselves (moderators); treating yourselves with more leniency than you do regular users which makes for unfair editing (and other moderation) and overall mistreatment of the rest of us users. Again, my "outrage" is with the hypocrisy, not the actual content, but it's overall purpose and meaning.


Same thing I said to Lucifer:
By your own standards, your family's opinion is irrelevant since there is a lower denominator; other groups will still be offended and YOU say that you try to appeal to the largest audience.
You are a hypocrite.






Funny how you both fail to even get close to addressing the actual issue (avoid avoid and avoid some more, right?).
You're only proving how you're both bigoted and abusive moderators.
Either that or you can settle the issue by explaining how it's not moderator abuse so everyone can understand.

[Magi]

If you're so annoyed by the mods durf, that from the past 4 years I've been playing I've seen very few people have problems with them, you don't have to post here. I'm sure that would save a lot of people a lot of problems. Every time I talk to you about it and say how annoying it is to see 4 pages of posts by you, you just tell me I don't have to read it. Now I'm throwing it right back at you.

[Durf]

Reason is because Lucifer says not to hide behind PMs.
Reason why we have to post PM history in the first place is because of this standard they set.
They essentially put all this into the public when they can easily handle it in PMs.

Like I've said in another post, no amount of emotional response from the community will change what is fact.
Talk to the moderators about your concerns; or do you think they will just be unreasonable?
Surely you can suggest to them that disputing a concern in PMs might be more beneficial for the public than to have it be out in the open...right?

Though, I'm not "annoyed" by them. Just pointing out hypocrisy like normal.
I calls em like I sees em; I see abuse, I call it. Their refusal to deal with the situation or to bring up an old dispute is NOT my responsibility.
I will take responsibility for addressing their concerns, because I will address every concern and I expect them to do the same (that is respect - if they refuse, they are showing less respect than I show them).

The truth is that the matter would be discussed via PMs if it weren't for the conditions imposed by the moderator themselves. Truth is, you don't have to read it or be exposed to it at all. But they want you to be. (why? to attempt to make public disgust for the issue being dealt with, a valid reason to forcibly stop the dispute - I'll say again, no amount of emotional response will change what is FACT.) As shitty as this is for everyone (trust me, I get it), my hands are tied.

Talk to the moderators about it, and the bullshit they cause. (I say they cause it because, I wouldn't dispute my ban(s) if I thought I deserved it; I wouldn't say Lucifer is abusing his status if I couldn't prove he was; and none of you would have to deal with this or be frustrated if they didn't FORCE me to place this in an area where you are capable of seeing it)

The least you can do is try to understand my situation, rather than assume I'm just being an ass about this. (I actually don't think you assumed that outright, but I think you don't see certain aspects that ensure you are only lead to that conclusion)








To prevent further avoiding, I'm repeating this for the Moderators to address. They make to choice to address the concern or not (for all to see):

Funny how you both fail to even get close to addressing the actual issue (avoid avoid and avoid some more, right?).
You're only proving how you're both bigoted and abusive moderators.
Either that or you can settle the issue by explaining how it's not moderator abuse so everyone can understand.

[Slov]

lmaooo you guys can't be serious

[Slov]

(and yes, snapchat is mostly used for sending naked pics lol (although you won't get any from me don't worry))

[compguygene]

Actually, current data on snapchat shows that although at the beginning of snapchat it was a lot of naked pics, increasingly teens and younger adults are just using it as a communications medium instead of twitter, facebook, etc. There have been several articles on this in recent months, and I have seen the use case of just another communication medium with my daugher, nephew, and their friends.

[Z-Man]

It's not moderator abuse because it was not a moderator action. Simple. Yes, I'd call it bloody stupid and it could have potentially *triggered* the ruin of that thread, but I could just as well pinpoint that to your post. Instead of posting, you should have hit the "Report" button like those other times. Tank has handled all your reports on us moderators before, he would have handled this one.

plus you would be able to show the community how you aren't anything that I claim (which it's obvious that you are unable to, which is why you avoid things).

I put high trust in the ability of the community to see through your spammy tactics; they won't misinterpret my partial silence as inability. They understand that every minute I spend here is a minute that is reduced from my sleep budget. Not my spare time, not my TV time, videogame time, reading time, no, sleep time. Someone mentioned filibuster? Yeah, pretty much.

This is because you went out of your way to look for sexist things in my posts

I did precisely the opposite. I can't say more under the 96 hour embargo on that topic.

Deliberating misinterpreting my words to think I'm accusing you of something (get over yourself).
What I was saying by "you could be lying" is that you have lost the trust required to think of you as a non-abusive moderator <snip>. That being said, you lack any and all credibility to prove yourself as trustworthy in that manner

That's how I interpreted what you are saying. You are always assuming people object to what you're saying because they misinterpret it; I object to it because of what you are saying.

Z-Man, why do you think rule #7 was written?

Since I wrote it, I can tell you precisely why: As a safeguard against complaints in case of misjudgement. So that when a mod would take action against someone for something that was against the other rules on the surface, but actually meant as a joke and just not recognized as such (that happens in heated debates), a "oh hehe whoops sorry for that, but see rule 7" is a sufficient response, not an impeachment trial.

Funny how you both fail to even get close to addressing the actual issue (avoid avoid and avoid some more, right?).

Then quit distracting from it yourself.

[Durf]

It's not moderator abuse because it was not a moderator action. Simple. Yes, I'd call it bloody stupid and it could have potentially *triggered* the ruin of that thread, but I could just as well pinpoint that to your post. Instead of posting, you should have hit the "Report" button like those other times. Tank has handled all your reports on us moderators before, he would have handled this one.

No Z-Man, explain how THIS POST and the edit made to it is not moderator abuse.
And I would have sent a report (tbh I thought I had) but the post was made by a moderator - so they could have just closed it themselves for all anyone knows. You guys aren't being reliable or trustworthy lately so what else can you expect from your users.

plus you would be able to show the community how you aren't anything that I claim (which it's obvious that you are unable to, which is why you avoid things).

I put high trust in the ability of the community to see through your spammy tactics; they won't misinterpret my partial silence as inability. They understand that every minute I spend here is a minute that is reduced from my sleep budget. Not my spare time, not my TV time, videogame time, reading time, no, sleep time. Someone mentioned filibuster? Yeah, pretty much.

Stop being an asshole by propagating rumors (basically false claims) like "spammy tactics" (that imply that I'm intentionally filling the forums with spam as a "tactic" of some kind - I'm raising a valid concern you ass. Do you job as moderator and address it please. I've had to ask you for far too long to stop avoiding issues - and every time you just dismiss it as unimportant. Stop disgracing yourself. Putting high trust in the community to have faith that you're not being as unreasonable as you are being is stupid - people are smarter than that (at least I hope they are). Put simply, if you were a good moderator, you can address the moderator abuse concern, made earlier in this post, effectively and quickly. You make the mistake of trying to avoid it which prolongs the issue as well as making you seem incompetent / incapable (I'm fairly certain that even a regular user thrown into your position would accept the responsibility and do a better job than you're doing - this is one of many reasons why you're just a sad case, and until you realize this, you will be stuck in such a position). While I can understand that you have to sleep, every effort you have made regarding any issue has only been to avoid it, not to solve it; just do your job as moderator (even if it's little by little, it will at least get done then).

This is because you went out of your way to look for sexist things in my posts

I did precisely the opposite. I can't say more under the 96 hour embargo on that topic.

Actually you can say more. The purpose of posting the PM history was to disprove (prove) the claims I've made against you that you were unreasonable in dealing with my dispute. Meaning that the old dispute itself can be discussed (though it shouldn't be because that is not only an old locked topic, but also it is being dealt with by Tank Program - you abandoned it). That being said, when the initial ban was issued, you made the choice to try to justify Lucifer's actions without actually trying to find out the truth. What you ended up doing was going out of your way to find "sexist" things in my words, instead of trying to understand how they can be misunderstood as such and how Lucifer overreacted to them. You are safe to disprove this claim and it needn't interfere with the 96 hour or the compromise. Now either you can't disprove, or you won't; either way, my claim gets proven to be true in the end. If you'd like for me to provide specific examples, I'm prepared to do so.

Deliberating misinterpreting my words to think I'm accusing you of something (get over yourself).
What I was saying by "you could be lying" is that you have lost the trust required to think of you as a non-abusive moderator <snip>. That being said, you lack any and all credibility to prove yourself as trustworthy in that manner

That's how I interpreted what you are saying. You are always assuming people object to what you're saying because they misinterpret it; I object to it because of what you are saying.

The more you choose to just be an ass, the more I'm going to call you one. You deliberately interpreted that you could just be lying (intentionally) as if it was a choice you made to deceive others. That isn't what I was claiming (necessarily). What I said was that no one has the ability to prove to themselves how you aren't just lying about that (very very different). And if you're becoming increasingly untrustworthy, it only adds to the possibility that you are lying - never at any point was I making the claim that you were lying about it. Stop being an ass. Stop deliberately misinterpreting my words just because you have something against me, and (as painful as it might be) you might have to read my posts twice over because this is becoming an awful habit (and really it sets yourself up for so much failure - be sure of what you say before you say it)

Z-Man, why do you think rule #7 was written?

Since I wrote it, I can tell you precisely why: As a safeguard against complaints in case of misjudgement. So that when a mod would take action against someone for something that was against the other rules on the surface, but actually meant as a joke and just not recognized as such (that happens in heated debates), a "oh hehe whoops sorry for that, but see rule 7" is a sufficient response, not an impeachment trial.

So what you're saying is that no one will get banned for violation of rule #7? And this doesn't answer the question of if the moderators are above this rule (the rule clearly states "unless the moderators think it was funny" - but what about the majority of the users of these forums? If a moderator finds something funny but is offensive to a majority of users, why is it allowed?). Sufficed to say that there is too much hypocrisy in that one rule alone (especially regarding how anal you two were about a swastika / nazis as a ladle team name - which can be seen as a joke that needn't cause any harm btw - "oh hehe woops sorry for that, but see rule 7", right?)

Funny how you both fail to even get close to addressing the actual issue (avoid avoid and avoid some more, right?).

Then quit distracting from it yourself.

Done. Explain how THIS POST and the edit made to it is not moderator abuse. This is the actual issue at hand, RECENT moderator abuse that is unrelated to any past disputes or ban(s).
No distractions; the request being made is clear.
For what reason was there for Lucifer to take moderator action that defines it as NOT moderator abuse? What rule was violated that asked for moderator action to be taken?
The request is simple; teach us all how that wasn't abuse; how Lucifer was not just abusing his status.
I expect a reference to a violated rule and an explanation of how the post violated that rule, OR admittance that it was indeed abuse and what subsequent actions are to be taken (A public apology for the mistreatment would be FAIR - impeachment would be appropriate - revoking his status would be beneficial. <-- all these assuming that the actions were abusive.). If it is proven to be abusive and nothing is to be done about it, then admit to that so we all have the understanding and can have those expectations ready, when interacting on these forums.