Education! (Split from Drawing Game)

[ConVicT]

So, really instead of having a go at people you should realise that by making this game available to anyone and everyone, you, the game makers have subjected kids to this.
You hold the responsibility, not the players.

[Titanoboa]

I would even go as far as to say that the players in games who say this sort of stuff are the most liked and popular players in most cases, so obviously they are not looked down upon, rather they are looked up at and imitated, tbh.

Yes! Because if something is popular, that automatically makes it good! The popular kids always do the right thing!



Oh and, for everyone who's looking for a heated debate about a sensitive subject, I made a topic for it on R forums. Everyone's welcome to participate! We haven't really picked a subject yet so input is welcome. http://r.jumpingness.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=911

[Light]

Yes! Because if something is popular, that automatically makes it good! The popular kids always do the right thing!

That's taking him the wrong way. He never said it was good or should be the way it is, but it is. It's generally accepted in gaming, and that's true, but by no means is he or I saying it's right or a good thing. He even said he don't agree with it.

[ConVicT]

Input is welcome.

I tried to register and got called a spambot, lol

[Titanoboa]

Maybe because you put something in the box that says in caps that you shouldn't enter anything in there.

[delinquent]

Sorry to drag this out, but

Totally understandable, i have a 4 year old, and i wouldn't want any of this happening when he's growing up.
Which is why he'll only be allowed online for school work or whatever, under my supervision.
The internet (Even online games) is no place for kids
In some ways Armagetron should be rated 18, just because you can't predict the things people will say, not knowing there are 12 year old's there.
I can think of 100 things iv'e read on there that are worse than r**e being said.

I respect this viewpoint, but what about your son hearing discussions out on the street? Whilst in itself, there exists an argument for withdrawing internet access from your son, one could also use that argument to say "Hey, my children have to wear earplugs outside, to protect them from any profanity and sexual discussion they might otherwise hear".

I argue that it is much more effective to teach one's children the difference from right and wrong, and helping them to understand and reject what is wrong, than removing wrong from their lives altogether. Besides, there is a wealth of mind expanding material on the internet that is positively influential. In my opinion it is important to teach them to seek out such material whilst understanding the error of negative material that they may come across in the process of learning and exploring.

I have to admit, though, since I don't have children yet I still see the world through rose-tinted glasses. That may well change when I do have a family.

[ConVicT]

what about your son hearing discussions out on the street? .

Hey, i can't censor real life and what happens when i'm not around, but i live in Scotland so chances are he will hear worse than any of this b4 he's 12, from friends or just general idiots on the streets, it's inevitable.

[ConVicT]

Maybe because you put something in the box that says in caps that you shouldn't enter anything in there.

I will register tomoz, it was somehow auto filled, i didn't really read it, i assumed the bot check was what the bot check was for.

[delinquent]

Hey, i can't censor real life and what happens when i'm not around, but i live in Scotland so chances are he will here worse than any of this b4 he's 12, from friends or just general idiots on the streets, it's inevitable.

Wor Scotland! Aye, he'll prolly be saying s*** p*** and f*** by the age of 6 xD

[ConVicT]

Yep, I remember the things i heard from my friends when i was little and it's even worse these days.
Maybe i'm reading all of this thinking "they're too sensitive" because i was desensitised at a very young age, who knows .

[Lucifer]

As for rape culture, it is real, and we're not being overly sensitive. I have a 13 year old girl that was randomly texted by one of my wife's coworkers in a situation that appears to be really early stage of stalking. Am I being overly sensitive about that? No, trying to protect my girls who have grown up/are growing up surrounded by rape culture.

Totally understandable, i have a 4 year old, and i wouldn't want any of this happening when he's growing up.
Which is why he'll only be allowed online for school work or whatever, under my supervision.
The internet (Even online games) is no place for kids
In some ways Armagetron should be rated 18, just because you can't predict the things people will say, not knowing there are 12 year old's there.
I can think of 100 things iv'e read on there that are worse than r**e being said.

There's a difference between talking about rape and celebrating it. I'll admit when I was younger I used to say really terrible things. It took awhile to figure out how much *I* was contributing to making it happen and blaming the victim afterwards. Hell, my wife only recently figured out that you can't blame the victim, but that change in her point of view came about in part because of my stubborn insistence. At a certain point, you have to speak up about it even when you know nobody's listening or cares. You never know when someone who was there will remember what you said. It might be while they're overhearing news on the radio about someone's life being ruined because they raped somebody.

You never know how it will play out. The only thing you know with a certainty is that if you don't speak up, you cannot be part of the solution.

I respect this viewpoint, but what about your son hearing discussions out on the street? Whilst in itself, there exists an argument for withdrawing internet access from your son, one could also use that argument to say "Hey, my children have to wear earplugs outside, to protect them from any profanity and sexual discussion they might otherwise hear".

I argue that it is much more effective to teach one's children the difference from right and wrong, and helping them to understand and reject what is wrong, than removing wrong from their lives altogether. Besides, there is a wealth of mind expanding material on the internet that is positively influential. In my opinion it is important to teach them to seek out such material whilst understanding the error of negative material that they may come across in the process of learning and exploring.

I agree wholeheartedly, and I have four kids. To me it comes down to the question of swearing. Do I swear around my kids, knowing full well that when they're not around I swear like a pirate? The answer, to me, is yes. The best way to protect them is for them to be able to tell me what's going on and talk to me about it. I had to give my 13yo "the dating rules", which are 1) Don't ever keep it a secret, 2) Don't ever have sex when you don't want to, and 3) If you do have sex, use a condom, no exceptions, when you're 18 and in charge of your own body you can make your own decision. Since that conversation, which came about because she was hiding her boyfriend, she's been a lot more open about it. At the same time, my wife and I are quite flirty with each other. When the question comes up, as it inevitably does, why do we let her see that? The answer is simple: so she has some idea what to expect in a good relationship. She has something she can identify with, and compare herself to that helps her to decide what she wants out of a relationship.

Since the comment was made that we developers are responsible for shit that happens around here, I think this is where it all comes together. We have always supported the view that individuals are responsible for their actions, and server operators are responsible for policing their servers. We will help however we can, without violating anybody's rights. At the same time, we try to cultivate a culture of respect and cooperation. There was a time when we all actively played often, and the culture was very different. When Phyto comes along and complains about how the culture has changed, I'd argue that a significant factor was less developer involvement in-game. We stopped being such great leaders when we stopped being so visible, and nobody picked up the slack.

Given that, who's going to pick up the slack? Who are the community leaders now? Or has it turned into total anarchy where a guy can't object to someone glorifying rape in a core dump without getting kick-booted?

[sinewav]

One day I hope these kids realize rape is not a joke in any context. Until then it is frustrating to watch them affirm each other.

[ConVicT]

Given that, who's going to pick up the slack? Who are the community leaders now? Or has it turned into total anarchy where a guy can't object to someone glorifying rape in a core dump without getting kick-booted?

Yes, you are correct, it has turned into total anarchy.
I could go into every single server right now and say these things without anyone even batting an eyelid.

I could make a recording of me going into every server and not being kicked, but it kinda goes against everything we are talking about, but what's the bets i wouldn't get kicked, even if there are server admins/mods?

[Light]

I could make a recording of me going into every server and not being kicked, but it kinda goes against everything we are talking about, but what's the bets i wouldn't get kicked, even if there are server admins/mods?

There's a lot worse said than that without anyone caring. Mods and admins are just players like anyone else, and in this game, they're not really in a big leader position, and usually don't go overboard with the power, and very likely wouldn't care about it either.

[sinewav]

I could make a recording of me going into every server and not being kicked...

I know a good 6 or 7 servers you would be kicked from. And just because people tolerate harmful language doesn't mean they approve or that it's eve Ok.